[N Camarolina]

Originally Posted by Rapid_blue_zl1_22

I had heat soak issues when the car was stock. That was the whole reason I put the car on E85 and tuned it. I didn't want more power. I got tired of paying $12+ a gallon for Sunoco 260GT at the track (100 octane) The car didn't HAVE to have it, and I could drive it like that. I could just feel the car pulling timing on 93. It probably would've been fine, but I just didn't like it. Maybe Texas is just a different type of heat. It isn't just hot here, we have insanely high humidity as well. I was a professional technician for 15 years, so I may be more sensitive to what the car is doing than some people. There are plenty of threads on this forum of other people that talk about the same issues I had.

This last reply helped clarify the focus of your concern (not wanting the engine to pull any timing when it's hot out).

I drive VIR (long straights) a lot as my home track. In the summer (90s, hot and humid), if not quite as bad as Texas, I think I know what you mean. Although my SSLE doesn't pull timing in hot conditions on 93 pump gas like it does when you have it in WET or DRY PTM mode(clear droning noise under throttle) , I think it is still pulling some timing because of the lower top speeds I reach at the end of the back straight in summer (140mph) vs winter/spring (147mph). I just accept this as a fact of life because I'm not willing to spend $$$$ on higher octane gas.

Since you appear to be sensitive to detecting when the engine pulls timing in the ZL1, I suspect you might also notice the stock LT1 engine in the SS pulling timing on you during the summer months in Texas. Maybe it won't be as obvious to you as what you hear/feel in the ZL1, but if it is........

[DaveC113]

Guess you could get an EV, it's not sensitive to atmospheric conditions...

[Rapid_blue_zl1_22]

Originally Posted by N Camarolina

This last reply helped clarify the focus of your concern (not wanting the engine to pull any timing when it's hot out).

I drive VIR (long straights) a lot as my home track. In the summer (90s, hot and humid), if not quite as bad as Texas, I think I know what you mean. Although my SSLE doesn't pull timing in hot conditions on 93 pump gas like it does when you have it in WET or DRY PTM mode(clear droning noise under throttle) , I think it is still pulling some timing because of the lower top speeds I reach at the end of the back straight in summer (140mph) vs winter/spring (147mph). I just accept this as a fact of life because I'm not willing to spend $$$$ on higher octane gas.

Since you appear to be sensitive to detecting when the engine pulls timing in the ZL1, I suspect you might also notice the stock LT1 engine in the SS pulling timing on you during the summer months in Texas. Maybe it won't be as obvious to you as what you hear/feel in the ZL1, but if it is........

The SS 1LE would be tuned for full E85 vs the E30 that I am running currently in the ZL1.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by N Camarolina

This last reply helped clarify the focus of your concern (not wanting the engine to pull any timing when it's hot out).

I drive VIR (long straights) a lot as my home track. In the summer (90s, hot and humid), if not quite as bad as Texas, I think I know what you mean. Although my SSLE doesn't pull timing in hot conditions on 93 pump gas like it does when you have it in WET or DRY PTM mode(clear droning noise under throttle) , I think it is still pulling some timing because of the lower top speeds I reach at the end of the back straight in summer (140mph) vs winter/spring (147mph). I just accept this as a fact of life because I'm not willing to spend $$$$ on higher octane gas.

Can confirm the same thing. The LT1 definitely pulls timing in the summer on 93. I don’t even have to look at my speed to know. The acceleration literally feels a tiny bit slower on hot humid days where I live. This has been the case on my previous SS and my current SS 1le. Idk maybe I’m more sensitive to it than others like the op is. I’d also bet it pulls a lot less timing than the Lt4 on hot humid days.

Op I’m not sure how to answer your question. I know if I had a 650 hp car there’s no way in hell I’d be able to go backwards and you have even more power than that. That being said you stated this is way more a track car than a street car. When I’m on track I don’t currently desire more power but I am still a novice. On the street though I almost sold my SS 1le because it feels under powered for a street car. If I didn’t enjoy the track so much I’d be in something else. I’m too used to 460 hp when driving in a straight line (the kind of roads where I live). On track though I feel 460 hp is plenty but I haven’t had an opportunity to get pulled on in the straights in the novice groups I run in so maybe that’s partly why.

I had posted a thread in the 1le section 1.5 years ago asking if anyone went backwards (zl1-SS 1le). Find the thread. There was someone that went from a zl1 1le to an SS 1le. Message him and ask what his reasons were.

[Rapid_blue_zl1_22]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

Can confirm the same thing. The LT1 definitely pulls timing in the summer on 93. I don’t even have to look at my speed to know. The acceleration literally feels a tiny bit slower on hot humid days where I live. This has been the case on my previous SS and my current SS 1le. Idk maybe I’m more sensitive to it than others like the op is. I’d also bet it pulls a lot less timing than the Lt4 on hot humid days.

Op I’m not sure how to answer your question. I know if I had a 650 hp car there’s no way in hell I’d be able to go backwards and you have even more power than that. That being said you stated this is way more a track car than a street car. When I’m on track I don’t currently desire more power but I am still a novice. On the street though I almost sold my SS 1le because it feels under powered for a street car. If I didn’t enjoy the track so much I’d be in something else. I’m too used to 460 hp when driving in a straight line (the kind of roads where I live). On track though I feel 460 hp is plenty but I haven’t had an opportunity to get pulled on in the straights in the novice groups I run in so maybe that’s partly why.

I had posted a thread in the 1le section 1.5 years ago asking if anyone went backwards (zl1-SS 1le). Find the thread. There was someone that went from a zl1 1le to an SS 1le. Message him and ask what his reasons were.

Thank for the reply. To be honest, I think I would miss the supercharger whine more than the extra power.

The plan would be to transfer everything possible to the SS 1LE from the ZL1. I know for sure the suspension parts, headers, exhaust, FlexFuel sensor, and Katech dual pump (Probably not needed) will transfer over. Not sure about the intake/TB. With all of that and a good tune on full E85, It should put me somewhere in the 500 WHP range. That is pretty close to stock ZL1 WHP and being on full Ethanol, it shouldn't pull any timing. Then eventually if I feel like I need more power, do heads/cam.

I am curious to track the SS 1LE 100% stock to see how it compares, then mod as needed.

[Rapid_blue_zl1_22]

Been doing some searching around this morning and found this:

Post #75

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showt...=612790&page=6

Post #14:

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=609875

These are all the reasons I have been thinking about making the switch. This was coming from a ZL1 1LE too, not a standard ZL1 like I have.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

Can confirm the same thing. The LT1 definitely pulls timing in the summer on 93. I don’t even have to look at my speed to know. The acceleration literally feels a tiny bit slower on hot humid days where I live. This has been the case on my previous SS and my current SS 1le. Idk maybe I’m more sensitive to it than others like the op is. I’d also bet it pulls a lot less timing than the Lt4 on hot humid days.

Op I’m not sure how to answer your question. I know if I had a 650 hp car there’s no way in hell I’d be able to go backwards and you have even more power than that. That being said you stated this is way more a track car than a street car. When I’m on track I don’t currently desire more power but I am still a novice. On the street though I almost sold my SS 1le because it feels under powered for a street car. If I didn’t enjoy the track so much I’d be in something else. I’m too used to 460 hp when driving in a straight line (the kind of roads where I live). On track though I feel 460 hp is plenty but I haven’t had an opportunity to get pulled on in the straights in the novice groups I run in so maybe that’s partly why.

I had posted a thread in the 1le section 1.5 years ago asking if anyone went backwards (zl1-SS 1le). Find the thread. There was someone that went from a zl1 1le to an SS 1le. Message him and ask what his reasons were.

GM is notorious for setting the ECU's up very conservatively. I have had C5 Z06, C6 Z06, and SS 1LE and ALL of them on CA 91 octane pulled timing.

I had Corsa exhausts on all of them and you can tell not only by the seat of your pants, but also from the exhaust tone. When timing is pulled the exhaust sound gets less clear and more muffled. It looses its crispness tone. I had that happen on every single one of them. Mix in some 100 octane and BOOM the exhaust note instantly went back to how it should sound.

In regards to the SS 1LE feeling slow on the street, I felt the same way. For its HP & TQ figures, it just didn't feel that fast.

Then I got into my PDK equipped 718 GT4 and while its figures on paper aren't that impressive, it is quicker feeling by a decent margin (especially on the top end). By the numbers as well, 3.6 0-60, as to where the SS 1LE is around 4.1.

[NG329]

Guys, your cars are not likely pulling timing. It's just making less power in the summertime as the air is less dense. Unless you are logging your runs, you are just guessing.

If your oil and cooling temps are within the normal ranges, even at the higher end, then your cars are definitely not pulling timing. They will however, make less power.

[Rapid_blue_zl1_22]

Originally Posted by NG329

Guys, your cars are not likely pulling timing. It's just making less power in the summertime as the air is less dense. Unless you are logging your runs, you are just guessing.

If your oil and cooling temps are within the normal ranges, even at the higher end, then your cars are definitely not pulling timing. They will however, make less power.

The ZL1 on the stock tune pulls timing at around 130 degrees on the MAT2 sensor. Stock ZL1's with 93 octane on a 20 minute HPDE session are 100% pulling timing unless it is really cold outside. It may not be much, and many may not notice, but it is a fact.

[NG329]

Originally Posted by Rapid_blue_zl1_22

The ZL1 on the stock tune pulls timing at around 130 degrees on the MAT2 sensor. Stock ZL1's with 93 octane on a 20 minute HPDE session are 100% pulling timing unless it is really cold outside. It may not be much, and many may not notice, but it is a fact.

I guess the question is, if that is indeed true, is it pulling timing due to actual conditions? Or, is the TC pulling timing to increase traction.

Run the car with the TC and stability control completely off, and log the HPDE session, then we'll know for certain.

[Rapid_blue_zl1_22]

Well fellas, I actually did it. I spent 5 days taking all the parts off of the ZL1 and putting it back 100% stock and traded it for a 2022 Rapid Blue SS 1LE 6MT with PDR. My ZL1 didn't have PDR, so I am excited to get to play around with all of the data. I am planning to go to the track Monday or Tuesday next week. I will update after my first track day and let y'all know if I feel like the swap was worth it. So far I am loving the SS 1LE. It doesn't feel much different overall. It feels lighter and more agile, and still has pretty good amount of power.

Don't worry, I already took the front plate bracket off.

[arpad_m]

Someone will be very, very happy with your old ZL1

[TransamGTA350]

Very nice. Looks like someone already added the ZL1 side skirts.

[Rapid_blue_zl1_22]

Yes sir! The car is 100% stock besides the side skirts.

Originally Posted by TransamGTA350

Very nice. Looks like someone already added the ZL1 side skirts.

Well fellas, It looks like I made the right decision (for me and my local track at least). I did my first track day today, and wow! With no aero, smaller 285/305 tires, SC3's vs SC3R's, 300 less WHP, and no suspension mods, I am 1.16 seconds slower than my ZL1 (On my very first track day)



First impressions: You can really feel the weight difference, Corner entry speed/exit speed is higher, I can get back on throttle way sooner, and braking feels about the same even with the smaller calipers/rotors.



I think with the 305/325 SC3R's, the car will be just as fast if not faster than the ZL1. My local track is pretty tight overall (has 2 decently log straights) and I believe the difference between both cars would be much greater on a higher speed track like COTA.



I am very happy with my decision to make the swap. I have a warranty now, use less fuel, and tire wear seems to be reduced as well.