[Drsagacity]

Originally Posted by aka Reckless

Sorry guys I was using a dual nozzle Alky Control set up. Vengeance Stage 2 cam, 12 psi with ECS kit (Paxton 1500).

Got it. I would expect that I could get over 800whp with 93+Alky injection. I am hoping to stay with a setup that allows me to run straight pump fuel.

[ShizzySupra]

Originally Posted by oldman

as an aside, since we are talking about HP supported by mods. You all should be talking about uncorrected dyno HP... aka real HP. A SAE or even worst a STP Hp reading can be 40 HP higher.

Well then we need to know what dyno they are using, is it loaded, did they dyno 5th or 6th gear, what was the air like, etc etc....

Fwiw: I dont swap pullies its about 17 psi and on 92/meth 772. On Ignite Red at ~80% E and meth it was 880. Just like Drsagacity we were way out of injector. The meth was compensating which isnt ideal but we have bigger injectors coming. Also, more importantly our trap speed indicates the power the car was making.

Good luck on pushing it more brother! Look forward to more fast Maggies

[Drsagacity]

Originally Posted by ShizzySupra

Well then we need to know what dyno they are using, is it loaded, did they dyno 5th or 6th gear, what was the air like, etc etc....

Fwiw: I dont swap pullies its about 17 psi and on 92/meth 772. On Ignite Red at ~80% E and meth it was 880. Just like Drsagacity we were way out of injector. The meth was compensating which isnt ideal but we have bigger injectors coming. Also, more importantly our trap speed indicates the power the car was making.

Good luck on pushing it more brother! Look forward to more fast Maggies

Great info Shizzy. That confirms what I was thinking. I am on pump e with no meth and running 760whp which almost identical to your 92+Alky. I only need 12 psi to get there. Based on the results from aka Reckless and your own, I would estimate that adding alky to my setup with no other changes will put me in the 830whp range.

In that case I could just use the alky injection to supplement my fuel for the track. I would flash a new tune and bam, I am in the target range to easily get the 9second slip (on the convertible).

I see four options:
1. 12psi on pump e85 -760whp borderline 9 second with vert (is 60whp enough to make up for the extra weight of a 2SS Convertible)
2. Add methanol to e85 - estimate 830whp ...definite 9second slip
3. Up boost to 14psi with race fuel - estimate 830whp
4. Up to 14psi - add FIC injectors - pump e85 - 830whp

Do you think this sounds right? Any other options I am missing? Btw - Which pulley are you running to see 17psi?

[ShizzySupra]

We have a custom 2.8 upper from GripTec and I am running a.....9.1 lower I think? We ditched the standard pulley type of combos from day 1.

Combo is about 21,900 blower speed. So we still have room to go.

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by ShizzySupra

Well then we need to know what dyno they are using, is it loaded, did they dyno 5th or 6th gear, what was the air like, etc etc....

The big issue with knowing actual hp in the 'tapped out fuel or not' question is altitudes that give ridiculous correction factors. We've seen dyno charts from higher altitudes, where a ~600hp corrected was actually making less than 500hp. This shows clearly that the corrected number is bogus for determining what the fuel system could handle.

[Drsagacity]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

The big issue with knowing actual hp in the 'tapped out fuel or not' question is altitudes that give ridiculous correction factors. We've seen dyno charts from higher altitudes, where a ~600hp corrected was actually making less than 500hp. This shows clearly that the corrected number is bogus for determining what the fuel system could handle.

Is that what it shows? Or does your example really demonstrate that a shop that doesn’t adjust the correction factor gets false readings which aren’t useful across different dynos?

The purpose of the dyno is to measure changes on your car. By using corrected numbers the numbers are generally applicable around the world without listing all of the factors that cause change from the uncorrected number.

Dynos are useful tool for tuning. That’s it. If the quarter mile trap speed doesn’t line up for the weight of a car then you know the number is inflated. If the car is never at the track, who know or cares.

Btw - My numbers and fuel system limitations match up exactly with the info posted by Shizzy, Laynlo, Ted, ADM, and Pray. All but Laynlo and I were on different dynos in different locations.

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by Drsagacity

Is that what it shows? Or does your example really demonstrate that a shop that doesn’t adjust the correction factor gets false readings which aren’t useful across different dynos?

The purpose of the dyno is to measure changes on your car. By using corrected numbers the numbers are generally applicable around the world without listing all of the factors that cause change from the uncorrected number.

Dynos are useful tool for tuning. That’s it. If the quarter mile trap speed doesn’t line up for the weight of a car then you know the number is inflated. If the car is never at the track, who know or cares.

Btw - My numbers and fuel system limitations match up exactly with the info posted by Shizzy, Laynlo, Ted, ADM, and Pray. All but Laynlo and I were on different dynos in different locations.

You seem to be misunderstanding my main point, which was agreeing with oldman. Actual hp determines how much fuel is being burned, not corrected hp. If you are at low altitude and get a correction factor like 1.03 on your dyno sheet, then you might not notice the discrepancy so much. But say that you are at higher altitude and get a sheet with a correction factor of 1.20, then obviously it's totally bogus to use that number as a basis of the fuel system's capacity. My focus here is not on internet hp (comparing dynos) it is just on using the most honest info that you have on how much power your car was making, and therefore how much of a demand it was placing on the fuel system.

[Drsagacity]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

You seem to be misunderstanding my main point, which was agreeing with oldman. Actual hp determines how much fuel is being burned, not corrected hp. If you are at low altitude and get a correction factor like 1.03 on your dyno sheet, then you might not notice the discrepancy so much. But say that you are at higher altitude and get a sheet with a correction factor of 1.20, then obviously it's totally bogus to use that number as a basis of the fuel system's capacity. My focus here is not on internet hp (comparing dynos) it is just on using the most honest info that you have on how much power your car was making, and therefore how much of a demand it was placing on the fuel system.

Yep. I misunderstood your point. Fair enough. I was simply saying that with a high degree of certainty, with all of the people posting on the forum, we run out of fuel at approximately the same levels of adjusted HP. . .but I understand your point and perhaps that isn’t the case with someone in extreme elevation.

[ShizzySupra]

^This.

[the highlander]

Lingenfelter pump and injectors will flow enough for 1000whp on E85. No external fuelers.

[oldman]

$4500 plus cam so that is an issue

[TJay74]

Is this engine running on the stock pistons as well?

When I had my PC D1SC put on my 1LE I struggled with the thought that it was going to require meth injection to safely run at the 650rwhp level. I told the shop I would have been more than happy to provide the LT4 injectors and LT4 HPFP if it could get me near or slightly over 600rwhp safely, they were adamant that it had to have meth injection to survive.

So at the 10-11 psi level and the 600-650 rwhp range is it possible on 91 (all we have here in Oklahoma, but I do have E85 I can mix) to have a safe daily driver without meth injection if you have the full LT4 fuel system?

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by TJay74

Is this engine running on the stock pistons as well?

When I had my PC D1SC put on my 1LE I struggled with the thought that it was going to require meth injection to safely run at the 650rwhp level. I told the shop I would have been more than happy to provide the LT4 injectors and LT4 HPFP if it could get me near or slightly over 600rwhp safely, they were adamant that it had to have meth injection to survive.

So at the 10-11 psi level and the 600-650 rwhp range is it possible on 91 (all we have here in Oklahoma, but I do have E85 I can mix) to have a safe daily driver without meth injection if you have the full LT4 fuel system?

OP engine has forged pistons.

You don't need meth for if you are willing to pony up for the fuel system parts. LT4 injectors and HPFP are good for 620whp give or take on E85. Jenetty documented this. If you use the LPE big bore then you can get up around 680whp on E85. ADM performance documented this with a 1le SS M6. This is with the stock cam...add a bigger fuel lobe cam like the OP has done and you can make 700+ with just the LT4 stuff on E85. LPE big bore is worth another 10% or 60whp of fuel headroom.

93 pump fuel hits a octane wall at 700whp, so 91 octane will be less. Stock fuel system is absolute max at 580whp give or take on pump fuel with FI. LT4 parts net another 80-100hp of fuel headroom. Again the issue you will run into with pump fuel is octane limitation and the high compression of the LT1. You will run into detonation issues...that is probably why your local shop said it needs meth.

I would buy the LT4 injectors + LPE big bore and run E85(e60 is really all you need if you want to mix it) or LT4 setup and a FI cam...keep the boost around 8-9psi... it should have plenty of fuel headroom and live a long life with correct tuning. Power should be in the 660whp range with the stock cam or 720 with FI cam. The cam setup would be pushing the limits of the stock pistons and precise tuning will be critical. E85 and high compression are a match made in heaven. Makes more power and consistent power with E85 on less boost then pump fuel. Take the same setup on 93 and switch it to E85, power will increase 60-70whp. It also has a much wider tuning window and more room for error. Notice most LT1's that have blown up are pushing stock fuel systems on 93. Food for thought.

[laynlo15]

Much easier if you drag race like I do just to stick with race fuel and meth injection. I don't have to worry about E whatever each week end and less worries about running out of fuel. I don't really care what the dyno says, its what the time slip says and how well the chassis works. Obviously the dyno is a tool for tuning and I've had lots of guys post 800 rwhp and can't post decent numbers at the drag strip compared the hp they are making on the dyno. So E may not be for me as it is others. I love smell of race fuel and it always made the same.