[cdb95z28]

I did the PWR at the driver's side aux rad position with an IR thermostatic filter adapter and saw a 50* drop in oil temps, and I kept the OE cooler. Yeah, you definitely have a problem. Don't toss everything yet, it will work once you solve the problem. If your SS has the same ducting/fender liner as an SS 1LE that rules out any airflow question. How quickly do temps rise?

[Baddawg53]

I did try to test airflow with a smoke machine and a fan, kinda not the best way but it's all I had. There is definitely airflow, and to the best of my knowledge the SS and SS1le have all the same equipment.

There's definitely something going on, no one has any answers and it doesn't seem like to be airflow or oil flow related. The oil hits it's steady temp usually by the end of the 2nd lap, or 3rd depending on the track. It holds it until my cool down lap and then falls steadily.

The engine is a 416 katech short block running 0w50 mobil 1 race oil. 595whp/525tq. No boost, naturally aspirated.

[Patriot Motorsports USA]

Originally Posted by Baddawg53

I'm kind of at a loss and looking for some opinions on why this setup didn't work.

Hoping someone here may have some insight, but I'm doubting it because every post on here I've seen has been tremendously positive. If you have any ideas on this I'm all ears!!

So I have read you have an SSLE LT1, is that correct?

Well, here you geaux... the PWR is a "Cool" idea but the heat exchanger they use was designed to flow water at a LOW pressure/speed versus oil flowing at a High Pressure and speed. Add to the fact you have multiple restrictions by using a thermostat and -10 lines is where the problem begins. First off, the LT V8s have TWO bypasses for oil to stay in the engine and not go through the filter and the cooler. The PWR cooler if using the -10 hoses with the Improved Racing Oil Cooler Delete could be triggering the cooler bypass if there is a pressure drop from the inlet-to-outlet of the block. The path of oil flow is to go from the front crank-driven pump, to the rear of the block and through the filter and it's bypass which if you are using a PF64 OEM filter, is 22-23psi. Now this is DIFFERENTIAL PRESSURE, not the operating OIL Pressure! If you add something in this network and the ECU is not triggered by the oil pressure control sensor ratting you out in programming, then you should see a steady 45-52 psi of oil pressure to be stepped up to 65 psi when accelerating. If your cooling system is so restrictive that it triggers any one of these areas, it thinks there is a "DEFAULT PRESSURE" problem and it will bypass the cooler and the oil coming from the pump to save both the filter and the lifters.

It is for these conditions I installed the largest oil cooler I could fit, increased the hoses to -12 so my oil flow is not restricted in any manner and so the oil would be slowed within OEM pressure ranges and not used tiny -10 hoses on an engine performing extended "racing" type RPMs on-and-off WOT use necessary to say "balance" a flying car in turns, esses or flat out flirting with disaster!!

You are not alone in this quest... others have tried these systems and had success and others have reached out to me to help diagnose the issues. In every instance, I recommend they remove the PWR Aux as the Engine Cooler and save it for something like I am doing, removing the flat Transmission Aux Cooler as well from the engine's radiator cooling circuit and using the passenger's side Aux cooler for cooling the transmission & eLSD. This allows the replacement of the drop-down LT4 forward closeout panel and use of the V6 flat panel with no opening for airflow to be diverted from the front of the radiators to under the car, affecting both handling and cooling.

Hope this helps you solve the issues you are having.

[Baddawg53]

I appreciate that response! Thanks for taking the time.

I definitely hadn't considered it being enough of a restriction to cause the bypass to open and redirect the flow. From what I know the only bypass is in the oil filter, where is this second bypass you mentioned? I can't think of any spot it would be other than the oil pump.

I could be wrong, and I couldn't find an oil flow diagram, but I think the OEM cooler is after the filter, so a restriction there could potentially bypass the filter and be catastrophic for the engine.

Interestingly, my oil pressures are spot on, and nothing seems abnormal in my data logs as far as pressure. I would imagine I should have seen high pressure, and I'll need to find a way to monitor both sides of the filter to see if that 22 psi differential is being seen.

I plan on getting back in touch with PWR on Monday, maybe they'd be willing to swap it out for a new one. I have a real hard time believing I'm just the unlucky guy who has this setup not drop the temps 50 degrees while everyone else I can find on the Internet says it indeed helped.

[Patriot Motorsports USA]

Originally Posted by Baddawg53

I appreciate that response! Thanks for taking the time.

I definitely hadn't considered it being enough of a restriction to cause the bypass to open and redirect the flow. From what I know the only bypass is in the oil filter, where is this second bypass you mentioned? I can't think of any spot it would be other than the oil pump.

I could be wrong, and I couldn't find an oil flow diagram, but I think the OEM cooler is after the filter, so a restriction there could potentially bypass the filter and be catastrophic for the engine.

Interestingly, my oil pressures are spot on, and nothing seems abnormal in my data logs as far as pressure. I would imagine I should have seen high pressure, and I'll need to find a way to monitor both sides of the filter to see if that 22 psi differential is being seen.

I plan on getting back in touch with PWR on Monday, maybe they'd be willing to swap it out for a new one. I have a real hard time believing I'm just the unlucky guy who has this setup not drop the temps 50 degrees while everyone else I can find on the Internet says it indeed helped.

As you dive deeper into the oil control system, you will see that the pressure is computer controlled out of the pump and there is a bypass on the filter itself and one on the cooler. So if you are bypassing the cooler, pressures will be fine as it is designed to do that, you simply do not get the cooling of the oil.

Everything I have done to design the system I have, has taken every step of this system into consideration and then discussed that with those who work at GM or their performance suppliers.

[Baddawg53]

Originally Posted by ZLElvira

As you dive deeper into the oil control system, you will see that the pressure is computer controlled out of the pump and there is a bypass on the filter itself and one on the cooler. So if you are bypassing the cooler, pressures will be fine as it is designed to do that, you simply do not get the cooling of the oil.

Everything I have done to design the system I have, has taken every step of this system into consideration and then discussed that with those who work at GM or their performance suppliers.

So that oil cooler bypass? Are you saying that's built into the pan? Or the OEM cooler? I no longer have the OEM cooler on the car, but I do plan on reinstalling it.

[Patriot Motorsports USA]

Originally Posted by Baddawg53

So that oil cooler bypass? Are you saying that's built into the pan? Or the OEM cooler? I no longer have the OEM cooler on the car, but I do plan on reinstalling it.

No... I would NOT reinstall it. Just invest in the proper oil cooler, change the fittings in the Improved Racing adapter and increase the oil lines to -12AN.

Save the heat exchanger you have, and I can help you re-utilize it for cooling the transmission and eliminating the airflow under the car from the Transmission Aux cooler hole in the splitter closeout panel.

[Baddawg53]

Ok, I have a theory on why I haven't seen a drop in temps on my gauge and wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts

Our factory oil temp sensor is located above the oil filter, and appears it takes a reading of oil before it flows to the OEM oil cooler. When using a sandwich plate the oil would then leave the filter into the external oil cooler and return to where the sensor is located. So you're now reading the oil temp after the cooler vs before in the OEM setup.

In my specific setup, I am still measuring the oil temps before the cooler, as I deleted the OEM and tapped off that same location. I'll be able to verify this in a couple weeks since I'm installing an oil temp gauge into the return line from the cooler.

So to expand on my theory a little more, I'm guessing that, since my oil temps are essentially unchanged at the factory sensor, the external cooler seems to be as efficient as the OEM plate type. The oil is most likely entering the engine at a similar temperature and increasing as it works through the engine and pump back up to the gauge temp. So I can probably conclude that the external cooler, when not also running the OEM cooler, is a giant waste of time and money. In my situation I'd say the only real benefit is the coolant is no longer pulling heat from the oil, and would ultimately make the cooling system more efficient.

So yea, results incoming, but I'm guessing the PWR is ultimately as efficient as the OEM.

Thoughts?

[N Camarolina]

I'm not an expert on engines, but am a scientist so comfortable reasoning my way through a problem.

I would guess that it shouldn't matter much where the oil temp is measured as along as you're measuring the temp in the normal flow of the oil or the bulk of the oil volume (the oil pan). 10 Qt is being continually pumped through the engine, so even though there will be some hotter areas up in the engine, the 10 qt is acting as a buffer to absorb and distribute that heat throughout. Thus, if your new cooler set-up is working correctly but doesn't lower the oil temp at the sensor any more than the OEM set-up, the new cooling set-up isn't any more efficient than OEM.

[Baddawg53]

Originally Posted by N Camarolina

I'm not an expert on engines, but am a scientist so comfortable reasoning my way through a problem.

I would guess that it shouldn't matter much where the oil temp is measured as along as you're measuring the temp in the normal flow of the oil or the bulk of the oil volume (the oil pan). 10 Qt is being continually pumped through the engine, so even though there will be some hotter areas up in the engine, the 10 qt is acting as a buffer to absorb and distribute that heat throughout. Thus, if your new cooler set-up is working correctly but doesn't lower the oil temp at the sensor any more than the OEM set-up, the new cooling set-up isn't any more efficient than OEM.

I think we're kinda saying the same thing. Kind of ...

Except I do think it matters where you measure the temperature at, before or after the cooler. I definitely would like to find an oil flow diagram to confirm my theory. I'm also very intrigued to see the temp differential of the OEM sensor vs the return line sensor, it'll show exactly what this cooler is capable of. Good data for sure.

[Patriot Motorsports USA]

Originally Posted by Baddawg53

I think we're kinda saying the same thing. Kind of ...

Except I do think it matters where you measure the temperature at, before or after the cooler. I definitely would like to find an oil flow diagram to confirm my theory. I'm also very intrigued to see the temp differential of the OEM sensor vs the return line sensor, it'll show exactly what this cooler is capable of. Good data for sure.

I know we covered this in the call... what you are missing is that it doesn't matter WHERE you are measuring 290-degree oil temps, its the fact that your oil is even allowed to get that hot in the first place. Its the heat and shear which breaks it down. Reduce the HOT temp and you will see a dramatic difference in wear and protection. It's 90-105 OAT right now in SC and the oil temps goofing around are still at 215-235º... and I am certain if I had time to track the car wouldn't see over 245º.

LMK if you need any help!

[Baddawg53]

Originally Posted by ZLElvira

I know we covered this in the call... what you are missing is that it doesn't matter WHERE you are measuring 290-degree oil temps, its the fact that your oil is even allowed to get that hot in the first place. Its the heat and shear which breaks it down. Reduce the HOT temp and you will see a dramatic difference in wear and protection. It's 90-105 OAT right now in SC and the oil temps goofing around are still at 215-235º... and I am certain if I had time to track the car wouldn't see over 245º.

LMK if you need any help!

Ok, I hear what you're saying and I think that's a different conversation.

What I'm trying to determine is why I'm not seeing a drop in oil temps with this specific setup. And my hypothesis is that this cooler is essentially as efficient as the OEM and other people have had "success" with it due to where it measures the temp at compared to where the cooler is plumbed in. Others used a sandwich plate which ultimately changes where the temp sensor is located in the flow. Where I have basically probably swapped in a different cooler with the same efficiency as the OEM in the same location as the OEM thus I'm seeing equal temps on my OEM gauge.

Exactly what is the best way forward is a conversation I think needs to happen, but this theory is for this specific setup.

[Baddawg53]

Just to put a bow on this whole ordeal ...

I installed a temp sensor in the return line after the PWR cooler to compare with the ECM oil temp readings. It measured 265 degrees as compared to the 285-290 I was seeing on the ECM data. So this particular setup seems to drop the oil temp about 20-25 degrees across the cooler. This was a relatively cool day, about 80 degrees on Sonoma raceway. I think the only real benefit to this setup is by removing the OEM oil cooler it no longer pumps heat from the oil into the coolant.

[N Camarolina]

Thanks for measuring and posting the post-cooler oil temps. I don't know what to expect from a "good" cooler, but 20-25F cooling seems a bit disappointing considering 80F ambient. I was hoping for more heat removal.

Now that I think about it, I'm not even sure ambient temps make that much of difference, as my PDR data says that max oil temps run 20F cooler at track events (~250) when it's 50F ambient, but I usually max at 272F whether it's 70F ambient all the way up to 95F.