[ZLRob]

Originally Posted by LiqTenExp

When i see something like negative timing at idle I would probably get fueling ok and then go look at zero pedal torque as compared to delivered engine torque. If you see negative timing your engine torque is likely higher than your zero pedal engine torque. Go look at virtual torque tables at the RPM/timing°/airmass and MAP values and massage up that part of the two tables equally till it is closer to the engine torque value. This will stop causing it to pull timing. You should land somewhere between 0 to 15° positive.

This video is a good example of how to do this:

You may also want to look at your \\engine\airflow\electronic throttle tab and confirm you have changes the max area for the larger TB.

Originally Posted by KingLT1

Easy solution is to get rid of the soler throttle body and go with a stock LT5. Not the first time I have seen this happen with those...and that was after swapping a NW 103 that was tuned for a Soler 107. Made timing go so far negative that I didn't even want to attempt to correct it in the VTT. But if you want to try and make it work, you need to go into the VTT, uncheck the boxes that applies changes to all, and remove torque in the idle region .20-.30 airmass/ 4-800rpm area and interpolate around that spot for the -10, 0, 10 degree tables. I would remove 20ft lbs at a time until timing gets around 10-15 degrees. If you pull too much torque it will start to act funky. Honestly anything above +5 degrees with a 0-15 zero pedal torque is probably fine.

Update: I managed to get a nice rock solid idle between 19-22 degrees stable with the updated TB max area value raised to match what was needed to really get the Soler right. The information you guys provided along with the video from Goat Rope Garage was insanely helpful in understanding what the heck was needed to be done. I'm seeing anywhere from 0-12 ft lbs of torque from the Zero pedal now and the delivered torque always is 6 ft lbs higher than the Zero pedal data itself at idle. Beautiful.

My next question is, is it worth it at all to touch the VE tables? I'm trying to create a graph to try and log it, but I can't figure out for the life of me what is needed to allow it to display the data that displays on the VE tables in BCM editor itself so I can start logging and getting averages out of it. Any suggestions, or is it not even worth touching?

Is there any reason to even need to modify them with what I got? I can't really seem to find a good video breaking down how to set up the graph or explaining what the values within the VE tables even is. All I understand is that it references RPM and Baro readings but the tables themselves don't make sense to me.

[radz28]

You should always tune the VVE when doing a cam. Probably anything at FBO and up should have the VVE looked at. And when you touch VVE, you should, also, be looking at VTT, because autos' need VVT to be very close, too. Too far on either side of being wrong could cause a slipping tranny, or a tranny that doesn't want to shift at the right times, or is downright too aggressive.

HPTuners has a lot of information on logging VVE. Cringer and smokeshow have great threads about this, and Cringer's is probably a little more friendly, as he has a guide to show you what to do. Smokeshow's is great, as the thread also gives filters to run. Smokeshow's, apparently, a guy who used to write codes/tunes for GM, and DSX brought him on to help with writing the PI controller Steck's releasing soon, so it seems that validates some claims. It's more involved than Gen III and Gen IV stuff, because VTT. Basically - what you'll want to see is GMVE/MAF/Dynamic Airflow lines all line up with each other in a GRAPH. GMVE tops out early, unfortunately, so if you make sure your MAF is dialed in, there's going to be a good chance you'll be okay in the VVE table.

It's a lot, especially if you don't do this every day, like a few of the guys here to share.

[ZLRob]

Originally Posted by radz28

You should always tune the VVE when doing a cam. Probably anything at FBO and up should have the VVE looked at. And when you touch VVE, you should, also, be looking at VTT, because autos' need VVT to be very close, too. Too far on either side of being wrong could cause a slipping tranny, or a tranny that doesn't want to shift at the right times, or is downright too aggressive.

HPTuners has a lot of information on logging VVE. Cringer and smokeshow have great threads about this, and Cringer's is probably a little more friendly, as he has a guide to show you what to do. Smokeshow's is great, as the thread also gives filters to run. Smokeshow's, apparently, a guy who used to write codes/tunes for GM, and DSX brought him on to help with writing the PI controller Steck's releasing soon, so it seems that validates some claims. It's more involved than Gen III and Gen IV stuff, because VTT. Basically - what you'll want to see is GMVE/MAF/Dynamic Airflow lines all line up with each other in a GRAPH. GMVE tops out early, unfortunately, so if you make sure your MAF is dialed in, there's going to be a good chance you'll be okay in the VVE table.

It's a lot, especially if you don't do this every day, like a few of the guys here to share.

I'll have to give a search on both of their stuff. That was quite a bit of info you wrote there, and I really appreciate you pointing me in a good direction with this. I've been searching for quite some time on how to do it and there have been so many dead end threads that don't give an answer. A lot of crypticness (which I understand to an extent) so thank you!

[radz28]

Originally Posted by ZLRob

I'll have to give a search on both of their stuff. That was quite a bit of info you wrote there, and I really appreciate you pointing me in a good direction with this. I've been searching for quite some time on how to do it and there have been so many dead end threads that don't give an answer. A lot of crypticness (which I understand to an extent) so thank you!

Sorry. I didn't have time to post these earlier, as they can get buried sometimes. They can be complicated if you haven't dabbled in this kind of tuning. There are some other things to do, that these don't emphasize, like changing the SPEED DENSITY/TEMPERATURE GENERAL/VE BASE TEMP to around the temperature you're going to actually be driving in for your log and making sure your cam is locked to ZERO and some other stuff. I'm still stock long block, so there isn't much I have to do (but still forget to, lol...), but you get the picture.

What I would make sure to restate is filtering can help a lot, but is a double edged sword if you aren't careful. The filters can be complicated and getting enough consistent data in the graph in the Scanner can be difficult. Sometimes it just feels hit and miss. I resort, many times, to just manually manipulating the VVE table to what I observe in the Scanner and just try to align it to the MAF sensor. I think smokeshow says that's the method to use, but Cringer claims to align to the Dynamic Air. Generally - it's said if you can get your VVE to within 10%, you're doing pretty good.

This is just simples stuff I understand, because I only have the 2650, basically...


smokeshow's:
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...ight=smokeshow


Cringer's:
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...-Assistant-exe

[ZLRob]

Originally Posted by radz28

Sorry. I didn't have time to post these earlier, as they can get buried sometimes. They can be complicated if you haven't dabbled in this kind of tuning. There are some other things to do, that these don't emphasize, like changing the SPEED DENSITY/TEMPERATURE GENERAL/VE BASE TEMP to around the temperature you're going to actually be driving in for your log and making sure your cam is locked to ZERO and some other stuff. I'm still stock long block, so there isn't much I have to do (but still forget to, lol...), but you get the picture.

What I would make sure to restate is filtering can help a lot, but is a double edged sword if you aren't careful. The filters can be complicated and getting enough consistent data in the graph in the Scanner can be difficult. Sometimes it just feels hit and miss. I resort, many times, to just manually manipulating the VVE table to what I observe in the Scanner and just try to align it to the MAF sensor. I think smokeshow says that's the method to use, but Cringer claims to align to the Dynamic Air. Generally - it's said if you can get your VVE to within 10%, you're doing pretty good.

This is just simples stuff I understand, because I only have the 2650, basically...


smokeshow's:
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...ight=smokeshow


Cringer's:
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...-Assistant-exe

The information always gets buried in forums unfortunately which makes searching for things uber difficult sometimes. Thanks for pointing my wheels in the right direction again rad. I'll check that stuff out!