[cdrptrks]

Originally Posted by BanOne

Running in sport1 I get the traction control light flashing on the PDR feedback and it seems the car has trouble putting traction down on corner exit.

What car are you driving and what transmission? ZL1 1LE? What type of tires and what sizes? I think you will probably frequently get intervention in PTM Sport 1 when exiting a low speed corner near the limit of grip regardless of what you do with the LT4 engine due to the amount of horsepower. Cool tires will cause more intervention. I don't run Sport 1 even with my LT1 engine (about 200hp less than the LT4) because of excessive intervention although the intervention is a safety net and you will need to be able to catch slides by countersteering if you move to less intrusive PTM modes.

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by khcoaching

For sure you are on to something here and that is basically what my MCS contact talked about. He felt that that there was a preload/bind problem with the stock setup (with DSSV) and wanted me to test by just adding adjustable sway bar links (SBL) before changing the bars. I did try that and did notice the car was "freer" but no real performance difference. It wasn't until I changed the bars that I noticed the big difference.

I will add, when I did install the bars, I took the time to zero preload them and initial driving had me feeling a "lag" between the wheel movement and the front reacting. I added a few turns of front bar preload and that totally went away.

For the people that have driven my car whose feedback I trust (Randy Pobst) they have all mentioned how well balanced the car is, no understeer (unless induced) and the car feel incredibly tight, like a race car. The only issue is the car is for sure is a bit pissed off, or edgy, and some may be due to the totally solid rear end and the alignment I used when they drove it.

Next step on mine is Hoosiers to see how really grip works with it this setup.

Ken

Interesting with the preload on sway bar links. It makes sense and I think you'd also want to preload them to partially compensate for the weight of the driver, so longer on the passenger side vs the driver side? Will have to try that!

[cdb95z28]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

Interesting with the preload on sway bar links. It makes sense and I think you'd also want to preload them to partially compensate for the weight of the driver, so longer on the passenger side vs the driver side? Will have to try that!

You can shorten the RF or lengthen the LF to move weight to the RF. I have a oval short track buddy with scales, I might get my car on them and try to tweak my car with me in it. I installed SPL endlinks.

[BanOne]

Originally Posted by midnight1ss

Have you tried running a different set of tires?

For example, I am doing autox and my first set of tires were horrible. I could not put the power down at all on exit.

My fastest time with the older tires was a 56.9 or something along that.

I then switched tires, and got the Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar 3 tires (which come stock on the 1LE) and just by doing that, I was able to get a new PR of 52.3 seconds. I did not slide at all and the traction control light did not even turn on during exit, meaning I was gripping all the way.

I then went and got a track alignment (-2 degrees of camber up front) and I shed even more time (if I wouldnt have hit a cone, it wouldve been 2 more seconds off).

Either way, I think you should try new tires, and an alignment before you mess more with the sway bar.

I forgot to mention, I have a 2017 1SS on factory suspension, except for the Eibach pro kit lowering springs and aftermarket wider wheels (Velgen (1LE Spec size)) and tires.

Video link below (if you're interested in watching):

Crappy tires (no alignment either):

New Alignment and Sticky tires:

I have been running Pilot Sport Cup 2's 305 square, I think they are close to the 3R's but they fall off quicker. My next set will be 3r's but have to burn these off first

[BanOne]

Originally Posted by cdrptrks

What car are you driving and what transmission? ZL1 1LE? What type of tires and what sizes? I think you will probably frequently get intervention in PTM Sport 1 when exiting a low speed corner near the limit of grip regardless of what you do with the LT4 engine due to the amount of horsepower. Cool tires will cause more intervention. I don't run Sport 1 even with my LT1 engine (about 200hp less than the LT4) because of excessive intervention although the intervention is a safety net and you will need to be able to catch slides by countersteering if you move to less intrusive PTM modes.

ZL1 1LE, 6 speed manual, 305 square pilot sport cup 2 tires, I have started thinking about moving to sport 2 or race to experiment with that

[cdrptrks]

305 square is less width than the ZLE's stock 325 width on the rears so that is probably contributing to your traction difficulties although a square setup is probably still advisable because the tires tend to last longer if you rotate them from to back. Also the car might be seeing slip that is not really there causing early intervention in Sport 1 because of the difference in wheel height/diameter if that's used in the PTM calculations.

The ice mode thread says that square setups are more likely to experience ice mode because of this reason so I would not be surprised if it impacted PTM too.

[cdrptrks]

Originally Posted by BanOne

I have been running Pilot Sport Cup 2's 305 square, I think they are close to the 3R's but they fall off quicker. My next set will be 3r's but have to burn these off first

Throttle House (YouTube channel) got almost exactly the same lap time in a Camaro SS 1LE on Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires as they did when they tested the SS 1LE later with stock SC3 tires so I would expect them to be capable of about the same lap times which I would not consider close to the 3Rs. The 3Rs are not in the same category as the other 2 tires on Tire Rack and on the detailed Grassroots Motorsports Ultimate Track Tire Guide.

I have run 3Rs on ZLE wheels on my SS 1LE at 5 different tracks for a few sessions each after running the majority of each event on stock SS 1LE wheels and stock SC3 tires. When comparing my best laps, I am about 2% faster (around 2-3 seconds per lap) on average on the 3Rs but I was only 1.3% faster at Barber using PTM Race compared to having traction and stability control fully off at the other 4 tracks. That is with less camber than the ZLE can run and stock sway bars that are not ideal for the 3Rs from what I have read on these forums and stock brake pads and rotors that sometimes can't fully utilize the available grip of the 3Rs under braking and stock MRC shocks. So I would expect the % difference between Pilot Sport Cup 2s and 3Rs to be larger for a ZLE especially because of the ZLE's extra horsepower compared to my car. My car's PTM is programmed for the grip of the stock SC3 tires so PTM Race on a ZLE with 3Rs would probably not have such a big lap time difference compared to traction and stability control fully off.

In PTM Sport 1 on a ZLE, I don't know if you would see much benefit on 3Rs compared to using Pilot Sport Cup 2s or other tires on the Super 200 list in the attached image (from the article I linked above) but that doesn't mean their potential pace is actually very close. If you check the Best Track Times thread, I haven't noticed any PDR videos posted by ZLE drivers using Sport 1 near the fastest times for the tracks that I have checked in the past, probably because it is faster to use PTM Race or turn traction and stability control fully off but that does increase the risk of losing control of the car if you make a mistake. There is nothing wrong with using Sport 1. I guess I'm just trying to point out that it might be holding you back more in your corner exits than any of the rear sway bar settings would.

[cdrptrks]

For rear tire pressure on both SC3s and SC3Rs I target 34-35psi hot at the end of the session (same for front) per the manual but others prefer 32psi hot. I can typically notice a loss of grip at 37psi and higher on SC3 tires on track. If you go too low you might cord the edge of a tire with a significant amount of tread remaining due to rolling over past the edge of the tread blocks and onto the sidewall while cornering but that is probably more of a concern with the front tires. Goodyear tires have a shoe with wings logo imprinted into the sidewall as the maximum point you want to roll the tires over which can help you judge your air pressure.

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by cdb95z28

You can shorten the RF or lengthen the LF to move weight to the RF. I have a oval short track buddy with scales, I might get my car on them and try to tweak my car with me in it. I installed SPL endlinks.

Oh well, I had a 50/50 chance...

I also have SPL endlinks, will have to give it a shot.

[midnight1ss]

Originally Posted by BanOne

I have been running Pilot Sport Cup 2's 305 square, I think they are close to the 3R's but they fall off quicker. My next set will be 3r's but have to burn these off first

I was going to go with some Cup 2's but since I was mostly going to use them for AutoX, I read that the 3s took less time to get up to temp, they lasted a bit longer, and they're also less $$.

I think the choice I made worked out. These tires stick! I just need to buy the set for the front tires but i will probably use the same tire size that the 1LEs use up front and not a square stance.

[BanOne]

Originally Posted by cdrptrks

305 square is less width than the ZLE's stock 325 width on the rears so that is probably contributing to your traction difficulties although a square setup is probably still advisable because the tires tend to last longer if you rotate them from to back. Also the car might be seeing slip that is not really there causing early intervention in Sport 1 because of the difference in wheel height/diameter if that's used in the PTM calculations.

The ice mode thread says that square setups are more likely to experience ice mode because of this reason so I would not be surprised if it impacted PTM too.

I had considered that as a contributor thanks for the additional info

[BanOne]

Originally Posted by midnight1ss

I was going to go with some Cup 2's but since I was mostly going to use them for AutoX, I read that the 3s took less time to get up to temp, they lasted a bit longer, and they're also less $$.

I think the choice I made worked out. These tires stick! I just need to buy the set for the front tires but i will probably use the same tire size that the 1LEs use up front and not a square stance.

Huh, this is opposite to what I had heard. The SC2's come up to temp quick but fall off before the end of a session. I had heard people on this forum say it takes up to 2 laps to get the 3r's up to temp but they will stay consistent for the rest of the 20 or 30 minute session where as I have found that the SC2's will get a bit slippery toword the end forcing me to take a couple easy laps in the middle of the session to cool the tires. I also think tire pressure is getting me here as well since I am seeing 35-37 hot pressures which from other posts is high. so I ma thinking of backing off the cold pressure a bit more.

[BanOne]

Originally Posted by cdrptrks

For rear tire pressure on both SC3s and SC3Rs I target 34-35psi hot at the end of the session (same for front) per the manual but others prefer 32psi hot. I can typically notice a loss of grip at 37psi and higher on SC3 tires on track. If you go too low you might cord the edge of a tire with a significant amount of tread remaining due to rolling over past the edge of the tread blocks and onto the sidewall while cornering but that is probably more of a concern with the front tires. Goodyear tires have a shoe with wings logo imprinted into the sidewall as the maximum point you want to roll the tires over which can help you judge your air pressure.

I am going to try lowering the initial pressures as I am getting to 35-37 hot pressures to see if it helps. Thanks for the input.

[midnight1ss]

Originally Posted by BanOne

Huh, this is opposite to what I had heard. The SC2's come up to temp quick but fall off before the end of a session. I had heard people on this forum say it takes up to 2 laps to get the 3r's up to temp but they will stay consistent for the rest of the 20 or 30 minute session where as I have found that the SC2's will get a bit slippery toword the end forcing me to take a couple easy laps in the middle of the session to cool the tires. I also think tire pressure is getting me here as well since I am seeing 35-37 hot pressures which from other posts is high. so I ma thinking of backing off the cold pressure a bit more.

Weird lol .. 3Rs warm up in the first run for me less than midway through the run.



I usually run hot tire pressures in the rear at around 30 psi and fronts I run at 32 PSI

Below is my rear tire.. look at the Heat mark