[vaspen]

Why would you not want to port the head I'm not talking massive porting here just clean up the flow and make it a little bigger

[ChicagoTommy]

Originally Posted by Corner carver

I don't believe the gt350 transmission internals will swap into the LTG trans...this has been looked into and although quite similar the gt350 parts/guts are approximately 30% physically larger... (so I've heard/ read; haven't actually cracked either open myself)

I've been looking into it as I also would like a reliable 500ish whp.
The 6060 would be a nice swap but would obviously require some custom work; nice thing is it looks like gm is releasing the ZL1 1LE goodies shortly which includes the spool valve shocks, other suspension and cradle goodies as well as the electronic LSD + axles....tasty

I've yet to see anything from Tremec that supports your statement. When you apply logic, your statement doesn't make sense. For the Mustang to have 30% larger internals, it would have to have a larger case as well. There isn't enough room in the TR-3160 case to just arbitrarily increase the size of the parts, that's not how it works.

As far as your goal of a reliable 500whp, it's not presently possible. If you want ZL1 performance and ZL1 parts, buy a ZL1. Sure, you could spend a ton of money to bring an LTG car up to ZL1 specs, but when you're done you'll see that you could have just bought a ZL1 instead. You can grab a used ZL1 in the mid-50's right now, this time next year they'll be under $50k for sure. Just look at the depreciation curve of the prior gen ZL1. They'll drop to mid $30's in about 3-4 years then stay there for another 3-4 years. LTG cars have already shed as much initial value as the ZL1, but have a much lower bottom value, which is all the car will be worth regardless of mods. I guess the final point I'm trying to make is that a modded LTG is going to be essentially worthless. No one's going to be looking for a modded 4 cylinder. These cars will never have the aspirational value like the ZL1, or to compare another 4 cylinder car, the Evo. That is why I strongly recommend against doing significant mods like engine builds.

[ChicagoTommy]

Originally Posted by vaspen

I'm just lazy lol :p but stuff like oil matnence I hop on
I meant what do you mean by zl1 fuel pump
Honestly if I can get internals from a gt350r sweet but the tail shaft is what's beefed up to my knowledge
But aside from that swap the bellhousing and should be peachy lol (dreams) I wouldn't mind ordering the mustang gear ratios. Or seeing if a t56 would fit (what the 6060 and 3160 is based off of

Significantly modded cars do not do well with lazy owners. It takes much more than oil changes to keep a modded car alive and happy. You'll quickly learn that the factory maintenance schedule needs to be vastly accelerated, as nearly doubling the power output puts additional strain on the entire drivetrain. Just adding a larger turbocharger changes your oil change schedule as it is going to impart more heat into the engine oil. Things like spark plugs become consumables that need to be checked frequently. I don't think you've really thought all of this through.

I mean that someone recently mentioned using the ZL1 LPFP to improve headroom with our stock HPFP. I've not yet independently verified that yet, so you might have to do some research there.

As far as the TR-3160 goes, I haven't seen anything that says the Mustang has a physically larger tailshaft. It could possibly have a metallurgically stronger material for the actual output shaft and a different spline count, but I highly doubt it's physically larger. As far as swapping in a T56 or a TR-6060, I'd imagine the TR-6060 to be the easier swap, as it is already fit to the 6th gen's chassis. So the shifter locations would probably be in the right spot. You'd just need to see what hydraulic would need to be changed.

[vaspen]

I am a mechanic there buddy I know when things need maitnance.. Lazy but I'm not gonna thrash it everyday ...
As far as shoulda bought a v8 ? Ima put my foot down right here if I wanted a v8 I would have shot for one (yes some days I think I would like one for the cammed v8 noise ) but the goal was to get people talking about what it would take to get there any more purist crap isn't going to fly. Also a zl1 what u think I have the $ for that ? Hah... Not everyone makes excellent $ dude I make by and a little but not enough to buy a zl1
1lt 25k zl1 60k. That's more than 20grand min I could invest and make a car alot better to my likes and needs for less still !
Tail is stronger and gear reduction plays a big part too
But from here on please no more buy a v8 or maintenance talk

simply if its a feasable goal. And how to get there
I'm sure if Jason gets his stroker kit done we will see alot of more power

[ChicagoTommy]

Originally Posted by vaspen

I am a mechanic there buddy I know when things need maitnance.. Lazy but I'm not gonna thrash it everyday ...
As far as shoulda bought a v8 ? Ima put my foot down right here if I wanted a v8 I would have shot for one (yes some days I think I would like one for the cammed v8 noise ) but the goal was to get people talking about what it would take to get there any more purist crap isn't going to fly. Also a zl1 what u think I have the $ for that ? Hah... Not everyone makes excellent $ dude I make by and a little but not enough to buy a zl1
1lt 25k zl1 60k. That's more than 20grand min I could invest and make a car alot better to my likes and needs for less still !
Tail is stronger and gear reduction plays a big part too
But from here on please no more buy a v8 or maintenance talk

simply if its a feasable goal. And how to get there
I'm sure if Jason gets his stroker kit done we will see alot of more power

Awe man, why did you have to go and do that now? I was tryin to help you out, looking out for you even. But it's just not getting through the weed smoke cloud around your brain for some reason. You're a mechanic? I didn't think they gave that title to oil change techs? I mean, most mechanics I've met would at least be able to spell maintenance properly, especially with the help of autocorrect. That means you actually saw the red underline and went 'nah, **** it, good enough'.

On to my second point... I never said you should buy a ZL1. I told Corner Carver he should since he had previously expressed interest in modding to beat ZL1 benchmarks. You got caught going 133mph. You shouldn't have anything more powerful than a bus pass! If you had even a modicum of reading comprehension, you would have noticed that I didn't say to buy a ZL1 now, I inferred there would be better deals down the road once they dropped below $40k in a couple years due to awful depreciation on GM performance vehicles. You've also chosen to completely disregard my point that a modded LTG car won't be worth more than it's scrap value, whereas the ZL1 will still retain it's full value. So you'd be taking the $25k that I'm sure you've financed for at least 72 months, then throwing another $20k in it to have ZL1 performance. After the interest on the car note, you'll be spending damned near $60k on a car that is worth $NOTHING.

Dude, it doesn't matter how much money you have, what matters is what you do with it. The absolute worst place you could invest it is in building an LTG car. You would have a better return on your money if you took the imaginary $20k outside, doused it in lighter fluid, tossed a match at it, and watched it burn for 1 whole minute, then kept only the money that didn't burn in that time! I did a mortgage for a guy a few months ago that worked in a deli at a chain supermarket making $12.00 per hour. He also had 4 rental properties that he and his wife had busted their asses to save for over the years. So instead of making $2080 per month at his job, he was also making $6k per month in rents collected. $72k per year in rental income, and $24k per year at his job. Think about that a minute. He is making 3x his monthly income from a few properties he had purchased for around $150k each. But whatever man, you do you.

FYI, this is me only mildly annoyed. You don't want to see me fully annoyed. Some here have seen it, and it's not pretty. I'd then make it my sole mission to verbally eviscerate you at every opportunity to expose you for the dunce you are.

[vaspen]

Yup I just change fluids **** it
https://ibb.co/cj6w8G here my head gasket / port and polish job I did on my Mercedes m111 engine
https://ibb.co/kgKr8G beginning
And some later work don't have final staged picks
https://ibb.co/kV1chb

[Corner carver]

Originally Posted by ChicagoTommy

I've yet to see anything from Tremec that supports your statement. When you apply logic, your statement doesn't make sense. For the Mustang to have 30% larger internals, it would have to have a larger case as well. There isn't enough room in the TR-3160 case to just arbitrarily increase the size of the parts, that's not how it works.

As far as your goal of a reliable 500whp, it's not presently possible. If you want ZL1 performance and ZL1 parts, buy a ZL1. Sure, you could spend a ton of money to bring an LTG car up to ZL1 specs, but when you're done you'll see that you could have just bought a ZL1 instead. You can grab a used ZL1 in the mid-50's right now, this time next year they'll be under $50k for sure. Just look at the depreciation curve of the prior gen ZL1. They'll drop to mid $30's in about 3-4 years then stay there for another 3-4 years. LTG cars have already shed as much initial value as the ZL1, but have a much lower bottom value, which is all the car will be worth regardless of mods. I guess the final point I'm trying to make is that a modded LTG is going to be essentially worthless. No one's going to be looking for a modded 4 cylinder. These cars will never have the aspirational value like the ZL1, or to compare another 4 cylinder car, the Evo. That is why I strongly recommend against doing significant mods like engine builds.

I hear what you're saying Tommy... About the transmission; like I was saying I haven't confirmed any of that info myself, just what I read and could very much be mis-information.

I also understand what you're saying about the ZL1 and would be lying if I said I haven't thought the same things...but in the end I'm gonna play with the LTG first and when/if that gets old I for sure want an ICE V8 while they are still being made; Camaro or Corvette likely.

The wife and myself are still noobs when it comes to driving a performance rear wheel drive car, so the LTG is a nice power level to start and grow with as our skills improve.

For now I'm mainly focusing on handling upgrades, 'power parts' are still aways off for me as I've have other more important financial goals to accomplish first.

[Ashium]

I said buy the Zl1, I see the previous model all the time with low miles for mid to high 30’s.
I’ll use my Z for example and round off, I won it off EBay for $2,100. I bought a JDM TT swap $2,500, then decided to tear that apart and rebuild it. Was about $2000 into the short block, I ported the heads, and did the valve job myself, $100-200 in supply’s, then had the heads decked for $40. Manifolds $700, turbos $3,200, down pipes $600, mid pipes $200, custom exhaust $840, injectors $1000, fuel pumps $300, intake set up $700, intercooler pipes and intercooler $1400, timing belt , water pump and pulleys $600. Clutch/flywheel $2500, radiator $400, used a/c condenser $100, custom a/c lines $100, new bumper lip $250, intercooler ducts $90, boost controller $420, chip to get it going $100, AEM w/b $250, AEM boost gauge $190, pod $70. Plus probably a misc $300-400in belts, gaskets, brackets, plugs and hoses. Then I lowered it $1300, I needed a camber kit $400. I’ll be getting some welds next, so probably $2,500ish. I’m sure I’m probably forgetting some $$. Plus I skipped a few items for now, like throttle bodies $600.
I’m a mechanic, so no labor is added into all that.

If you want to play with the big boys, It adds up fast.

[Evil-Bee-NH]

Originally Posted by ChicagoTommy

Awe man, why did you have to go and do that now? I was tryin to help you out, looking out for you even. But it's just not getting through the weed smoke cloud around your brain for some reason. You're a mechanic? I didn't think they gave that title to oil change techs? I mean, most mechanics I've met would at least be able to spell maintenance properly, especially with the help of autocorrect. That means you actually saw the red underline and went 'nah, **** it, good enough'.

Glad I came back and saw someone saying what needed to be said.

FYI, this is me only mildly annoyed. You don't want to see me fully annoyed. Some here have seen it, and it's not pretty. I'd then make it my sole mission to verbally eviscerate you at every opportunity to expose you for the dunce you are.

No way you've never lost it not once ever promise I can look it up and find not one instance you got annoyed.



missed you bud.

[Johnny2343]

Enlightening!

[laurenwright3]

If your advice is to buy a v8 then don’t bother posting is how I feel about it. When I read this forum I want to read about the ltg . Not what I should’ve bought ?

I think 500 hp is certainly possible but as mentioned your going to a guinea pig at this point and it’s going to get expensive. If your on a budget of any kind I would let someone else pioneer the project and hopefully they’ll point others interested in big numbers in the right direction.

Is they’re anyone even running an upgraded turbo, full bolt in this group? They’re numbers would certainly shed some light .(not on that much)

[ChicagoTommy]

Originally Posted by laurenwright3

If your advice is to buy a v8 then don’t bother posting is how I feel about it. When I read this forum I want to read about the ltg . Not what I should’ve bought ?

I generally don't care much about 'feelings'. I think I've made that abundantly clear in the past year and a half or so. Sometimes 'buy a v8' is the right answer to a question. I've provided a litany of reasons as to why it's a perfectly acceptable option. I've given a lot of people that advise over the past 20 years of posting on various forums. I was deeply involved with 4th gen V6 cars for a good long while, and heard it from people back then too that I should just buy a V8. I completely understand working with what you've got. It's not like I'm one of the typical Camaro V8 owners just sneering down my nose and treating anyone like an idiot for their purchase, except those that absolutely deserve it, and they know who they are. Now onto why buying a V8 is a better course for some people... Everyone posting in this thread is completely delusional if they believe they can build a 500rwhp LTG and have it be a reliable daily driver. That's just not going to happen now, or even in the next few years. Those parts are just not available yet. As I've said over and over again, the weakest link is the transmission. Finally this year SPEC built a custom clutch for an LTG engine and TR-3160 combo! That's 5 years after the platform came out from GM! That's a LONG ASS TIME! All the aftermarket mods for this platform are coming out at a GLACIAL pace because of the other 2 models (V6 & V8). Most aftermarket companies don't have the resources available to dive head first into the LTG pool, and betting on the V8 is much more lucrative for them. So, that's just a simple business decision. In summary, a V8 might actually be the only choice for people that want a reliable 500rwhp Camaro within the next few years.

On to the other issue, at least as I see it, is that it's absolutely insane to modify a vehicle that you still have a note on. Spending the 'mod' money to pay off the vehicle sooner and saving thousands on future interest payments would be the smart decision. And I'm not even talking about a cold air kit or downpipe or anything else cheap. I'm purely talking about the 500rwhp level that is desired in this thread. To get to 500rwhp, you're talking about spending a minimum of $10k. Hell, the proper HPFP required to run that power level currently costs about $2500!!!! We aren't talking about chump change here. Some members are just outright dreaming if they think they can afford to build a 500rwhp reliable LTG. When you follow these forums as closely as I do, you can get a sense of who can actually achieve that kind of lofty goal, and who is some broke dick trailer trash posting their wet dreams that they will never accomplish if they had 5 full lifetimes to do it in.

Originally Posted by laurenwright3

Is they’re anyone even running an upgraded turbo, full bolt in this group? They’re numbers would certainly shed some light .(not on that much)

Yes, there are several ATS's running FBO and upgraded turbo. You really need to follow Cadillac Forum as well as camaro6 to have a full picture of what is currently going on in the LTG community. Actually, you really do need to follow the communities on Facebook as well. I know I've missed several builds and developments by not being on Facebook.

[Evil-Bee-NH]

I'll be happy with 400whp honestly. But that won't be til i get the car paid off looking to hover around 330 to 340whp for awhile. I think ChicagoTommy is correct and several of us on here don't mince words and don't always agree with each other but a reliable 500whp LTG is just something i have a hard time grasping even myself. There's a lot to be said about us wether we chose the I4 because we wanted to build something from less or because it's what we could afford. There's really been way to much BS information and claims made with how things work and what to expect and I'm no stranger to disagreeing with ChicagoTommy or not always having all my information straight but when both of us say something we atleast show you actual numbers and research. Not heresay crap like what caused my most recent tirade when someone said bolt-ons without a tune do nothing but no actual proof was given just heresay without examples. There's been to much of that nonesense lately without any actual proof and it's getting way more toxic as a result.

[ChicagoTommy]

Originally Posted by cooper1965

You preach of Toxic "Heresy" , yet encourage the mass to run around with full bolt-ons, un-tuned.. What about the guy's living in Canada? How about the guy's in Hawaii? Do you really believe your particular Dyno results apply to every example of a modified camaro on this forum? The variables on dyno runs alone are staggering. LOL.

Dude, let it go. I already talked to evilb about it too. You both need to let it go and quit needling each other. Come on man! I know you're better than that. We need to work together as a team to advance the platform! We need to work together to achieve common goals! I know he went way over the line, but were never gonna get back to an even footing if you guys don't leave each other alone! Come on now!