[apexit53]

Originally Posted by hzycamaro

Since you have driven both BRZ and Camaro in autocross, you must have a clear understanding of the difference. I once took a ride with an instructor in his open top Miata, such a big difference!

Yeah I mean lets face it, autocross does favor smaller cars. Though Ill say Ive had a blast this season racing tough competition in FS and learning a new car. Also its more fun on the street

[jwisjw]

Originally Posted by hzycamaro

Since you have driven both BRZ and Camaro in autocross, you must have a clear understanding of the difference. I once took a ride with an instructor in his open top Miata, such a big difference!

The last event at Crow's Landing, I ended up raw timing my former class, STX, which I raced a FR-S as well. So it is very course dependent in California. The courses up towards Irvine/AAA Speedway SCCA area are pretty "brisk"... Enough to notice brake fade on the stock pads. I would encourage you to try one event at least to see how you like it. More Camaros, the merrier.

[Tim202]

Originally Posted by hzycamaro

I think his complain comes from the fact that fast acceleration doesn't give you much advantage in autocross because of tight turns and slow courses

True, but fast acceleration is good for drag strip. Autocross is a good how-do-I-turn-my-car-better teacher. Some would even say that autocross is a better handling teacher than a road course. I however have too little experience at road courses to make that call.

Originally Posted by hzycamaro

My point is compared to light and small cars, Camaros are more difficult to get a good result in autocross. Maybe I should not compare Camaro with Miata in the first place. Maybe that's why SCCA has so many different classes

Yes a good miata driver will kick our butts, but I still have fun in my class.

[jwisjw]

Originally Posted by Tim202

Yes a good miata driver will kick our butts, but I still have fun in my class.

Just curious, have they classed the ZL1 1LE yet? IIRC, the ZL1 was in A street, would imagine the ZL1 1LE would probably be closer to SS or the obvious, CAM-C.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Tim202

True, but fast acceleration is good for drag strip. Autocross is a good how-do-I-turn-my-car-better teacher. Some would even say that autocross is a better handling teacher than a road course. I however have too little experience at road courses to make that call.

Autocross will teach you more about transient handling, road course is where you're far more likely to reach your car's steady-state (midcorner) balance. The risks are far lower, which makes it easier to push yourself and the car harder.

Autocrossing is also closer to street driving and street emergency speeds, but the downside to most autocross lots is that you don't have things like pavement edges and the ruts/dirt/mud just off-pavement to be keeping at least in the back of your mind like you have to in either street or road course driving.


Norm

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by hzycamaro

Your friend sounds like me

I think his complain comes from the fact that fast acceleration doesn't give you much advantage in autocross because of tight turns and slow courses

Physics at work here. As long as you're using much tire grip for cornering, you're limited on how much acceleration you can use (no matter how much acceleration potential your car has). Second gear with 3.91's in the diff, the front wheels still turned and the car not pointed pretty close to directly down the straight, and you won't feel like you're using anywhere near the torque that you know is available because you won't be. Can't. The lower powered Miata won't be throwing away nearly as much of what isn't one of its strengths in the first place.

My point is compared to light and small cars, Camaros are more difficult to get a good result in autocross. Maybe I should not compare Camaro with Miata in the first place. Maybe that's why SCCA has so many different classes

Classes are supposed to be set up such that cars of generally similar performance compete directly against each other. Small, light, and NARROW being good things (it can be mathematically proven that any given slalom requires higher lateral g's in your Camaro than in a Miata if you're going to run through it in the same amount of time).

FWIW, your performance through a slalom as a driver gets better (you'll at least come to hate them less) once you start consciously starting your turning to go around each cone before you get to it. It takes a finite amount of time to spin the wheel over, and the tires are only gradually getting around to where they need to be pointed, so you need to be giving yourself a head start on it all. That's when "getting behind the cones" starts making more sense.


Norm

[hzycamaro]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Autocross will teach you more about transient handling, road course is where you're far more likely to reach your car's steady-state (midcorner) balance. The risks are far lower, which makes it easier to push yourself and the car harder.

Autocrossing is also closer to street driving and street emergency speeds, but the downside to most autocross lots is that you don't have things like pavement edges and the ruts/dirt/mud just off-pavement to be keeping at least in the back of your mind like you have to in either street or road course driving.


Norm

That's some really interesting comparison between road course and autocross. I don't have any track experience but I do notice a lot of cars lost control in autocross

[hzycamaro]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

FWIW, your performance through a slalom as a driver gets better (you'll at least come to hate them less) once you start consciously starting your turning to go around each cone before you get to it. It takes a finite amount of time to spin the wheel over, and the tires are only gradually getting around to where they need to be pointed, so you need to be giving yourself a head start on it all. That's when "getting behind the cones" starts making more sense.


Norm

I'm not sure I understand but I'll try to practice it in next autocross

[Tim202]

Originally Posted by jwisjw

Just curious, have they classed the ZL1 1LE yet? IIRC, the ZL1 was in A street, would imagine the ZL1 1LE would probably be closer to SS or the obvious, CAM-C.

Not yet. I'm still running AS. If it does end up in SS...I'm not sure where I'll race. SS and CAM-C here are pretty much non-existent.

[apexit53]

Originally Posted by Tim202

Not yet. I'm still running AS. If it does end up in SS...I'm not sure where I'll race. SS and CAM-C here are pretty much non-existent.

If its SS does that mean it also qualifies for SSR? Cant lie that car might be a lot of fun on Rcomps! hah

[jwisjw]

Originally Posted by Tim202

Not yet. I'm still running AS. If it does end up in SS...I'm not sure where I'll race. SS and CAM-C here are pretty much non-existent.

Should maybe try making the trek out to our local events...

The events here on, out, are at AAA speedway but CAM-C is mighty healthy when the events are at Irvine, can't speak for Fontana though. Link below is from our last event, quite a few people from the SD region do drive up.

http://members.quixnet.net/free2000/..._fin.htm#CAM-C