[Godfatha]

Originally Posted by 2012 IngotSilver 5.0

It sure was.





Agreeing with someone just because they agree with you is not a demonstration of a statement's truth.

So you aren't well informed about the '18 Mustang, but you still think you should comment on them.

Nice.





Yeah, I have an idea ...

How about raising this forum's maturity level.

My Camaro buddies are good people, I hope they're not in a minority.

It's a joke man. Most of it aimed at guys like Fastcarfanboy. I don't have any problem with Mustangs or respectful Mustang owners, just like I don't have a problem with Mopar guys and respectful ones. I can appreciate all three.

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

Haha! Come on, this thread has devolved into good natured stupidity at this point.... just have a laugh and relax!

As for the maturity level? Well, we've had our fair share of both sides acting like stupid idiots..

Most car people are generally good people I've found, regardless of what you drive. I'm friends with a lot of Mustang owners, including several 9-10 second cars....it's always fun to trash talk them

Agreed. We are just fkng around anyways. We honestly don't care if a Mustang is better than the Camaro or we would of bought one.

I know I don't. I just know for now that my Zl1 is breaking little Mustang fanboys hearts right now and it's a punch in the gut because they have no response.

[Expunge]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Yes I understand your logic ignore the other 95% of similar vehicles listed for sale and focus on the very lowest price and that is where the value is. It will be interesting to see where 17-18 1LE's are in 4-5 years considering the 17 has already dropped 25%+ in year one using your lowest price analogy.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2017-Chevro...5aI0lF&vxp=mtr

Your link is for a rebuild title.

Thank you for showing your idiocy, step away from the keyboard and stay off the internet.

[Martinjlm]

This guy does a really good review of an ‘18 with PP1, including Dino results, track before and after mods. Nice review.

https://youtu.be/-moFN3GtVL8

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by Expunge

Your link is for a rebuild title.

Thank you for showing your idiocy, step away from the keyboard and stay off the internet.

Sorry didn't catch the rebuild title in the ad. Again understand I am using Metros thoughts "A true indicator of where the values are headed is too look at the lowest available examples", his thoughts not mine. So my response is if this is the case does it apply to the Camaro as well? If so where will the value be using the lowest price theory in 2021 for the Camaro, if we are already down below 35k in year one.

https://cars.trovit.com/listing/2017....1O1Aajf1M1f1Y

https://cars.trovit.com/listing/2017...09.P1X1nu3S61v

[oldman]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Sorry didn't catch the rebuild title in the ad. Again understand I am using Metros thoughts "A true indicator of where the values are headed is too look at the lowest available examples",

It would be easier to say I screwed up and compared an ample to an orange. sorry but unless you know the purchase price it is MEANINGLESS to compare it for the asking price second hand. The Boss and the Shelby had ridiculous asking prices. I would speculate the most 1LE went for under MSRP, and gee my GM credit card boosted to $3000 for the purchase of any Camaro, plus $500 higher education discount, plus gm pricing for GM credit union, was applicable to anything outside of the ZL1.

An um sorry try again, the first Camaro is listed as a GM buyback due to defect, you think that is a "normal" second hand car? LOL

[Oldfart]

What's an ample??? I'm assuming it's different than an orange.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Without trying to track that down again, I'm sure I thought that his claim of a GT in any OE trim beating a Corvette was just as silly as you do, and tried to at least get him back to comparing cars of more generally comparable intent. But if you care to point me at a thread or a post date in a PM I might revisit it.

I don't go over to that site. I was just reading what was screen-shotted and displayed over here.

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

I'm sure that there are people over there who feel that I favor the Camaro as much as you feel that I favor the Mustang. It's what a neutral position looks like from both positions of clear favoritism. Things might have been different if I'd had an SS to choose from back in the 2007 time frame, and likely would have been had there been a 1LE option. I really am that focused on cornering and handling, once I've settled on a general car category, that 1LE availability would have tipped the balance for sure.

Neutrality is one thing. Favoring a car is another thing. I'm not talking neutrality, I'm saying that you prefer the Mustang. Whether they over there think you prefer the Camaro or not is of no concern to me.

Originally Posted by Godfatha

Norm seems like a good guy. He's a car guy, and favors the Mustang, but seems to do his best to call it down the middle.

I think he tries to come across like he is neutral. Or he tries to put things in a neutral way. But I don't think he actually is neutral. He does favor one over the other which is fine. I don't knock anyone for their personal choice.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I actually think Ford knew exactly what they were doing here, it simply back-fired. By introducing the GT 350R to compete with the outgoing Z/28, they were pretty much guaranteed "King of the Yard" status until at least the 3rd year of Gen 6, assuming GM followed the same pattern of ZL1 in year two and Z/28 in year three. Thing is, they didn't count on 6 Gen 1LE being as good as it was right out of the box.

For the record, I have found that Norm Peterson has been the voice of reason on the Mustang side and has often taken a lot of $#!t from some of the more rabid fanboys over there. I've been posting a bit lately on the Mustang side and I have found him to be among the most fair voices of there. Sometimes they are more critical of him there than people have been over here.

It makes no sense to start a new platform with the intention of beating the competitor's current platform while it is in it's final year. They knew the Camaro would be improved or at least they should have expected it. Over the decades the Camaro has always improved each Generation. Ford went their 1994 route and came out with a heavier slower GT again. And the GT350 simply got outclassed. And even after that, instead of going to the drawing board and building a PP1 for 18 that could keep up they made it lame.

[metros11]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Yes I understand your logic ignore the other 95% of similar vehicles listed for sale and focus on the very lowest price and that is where the value is. It will be interesting to see where 17-18 1LE's are in 4-5 years considering the 17 has already dropped 25%+ in year one using your lowest price analogy.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2017-Chevro...5aI0lF&vxp=mtr

Okay, so point well made and I'll concede. Lowest price isn't always going to be a good indicator. For the sake of the argument, what range is good to use then? Lowest 25-50%? Median? Specific regional location? I mean there are so many variable to consider, which one do you want to use?

Here's a personal example, that white Boss I had originally linked in is being sold one hour from my house. So I can walk out today and certainly buy that car for less than $30k. I can tell you from personal experience that you cannot buy a used 1LE for under $40k within a 200 mile radius of me. It's the exact reason I bought new. Does that mean they're all worth over $40k used now? Absolutely not, I get that, and I won't use that argument. That's why all I'm doing here is looking at nationwide examples to compare both cars, and the factual numbers show that your claim of a 2013 Boss commanding the same prices as a used 2017 1LE is fallacy. And I will admit that the lowest $36,500 1LE that's currently listed on Autotrader, is definitely not the lowest price I've seen these cars go for. I've seen postings of $35,000 and $33,500 even for clean cars and owners who are looking to dump them asap. But the same thing happens anywhere in the automotive world. I'm sure someone lucked out and bought a Boss way below the value because the original owner needed to sell it asap, happens all the time.

That link btw, rebuilt title.

Originally Posted by newmoon

Sorry didn't catch the rebuild title in the ad. Again understand I am using Metros thoughts "A true indicator of where the values are headed is too look at the lowest available examples", his thoughts not mine. So my response is if this is the case does it apply to the Camaro as well? If so where will the value be using the lowest price theory in 2021 for the Camaro, if we are already down below 35k in year one.

https://cars.trovit.com/listing/2017....1O1Aajf1M1f1Y

https://cars.trovit.com/listing/2017...09.P1X1nu3S61v

See above response. Tell me which factors you'd like to use to support your claim of equivalent value then... Posting Laguna Seca asking numbers isn't going to cut it.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by metros11

Okay, so point well made and I'll concede. Lowest price isn't always going to be a good indicator. For the sake of the argument, what range is good to use then? Lowest 25-50%? Median? Specific regional location? I mean there are so many variable to consider, which one do you want to use?

Here's a personal example, that white Boss I had originally linked in is being sold one hour from my house. So I can walk out today and certainly buy that car for less than $30k. I can tell you from personal experience that you cannot buy a used 1LE for under $40k within a 200 mile radius of me. It's the exact reason I bought new. Does that mean they're all worth over $40k used now? Absolutely not, I get that, and I won't use that argument. That's why all I'm doing here is looking at nationwide examples to compare both cars, and the factual numbers show that your claim of a 2013 Boss commanding the same prices as a used 2017 1LE is fallacy. And I will admit that the lowest $36,500 1LE that's currently listed on Autotrader, is definitely not the lowest price I've seen these cars go for. I've seen postings of $35,000 and $33,500 even for clean cars and owners who are looking to dump them asap. But the same thing happens anywhere in the automotive world. I'm sure someone lucked out and bought a Boss way below the value because the original owner needed to sell it asap, happens all the time.

That link btw, rebuilt title.

See above response. Tell me which factors you'd like to use to support your claim of equivalent value then... Posting Laguna Seca asking numbers isn't going to cut it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Again when I said equivalent value I was using your lowest price argument, which I completely disagree with. There is no way I would assume my car is only worth the lowest priced example I can find on the internet, you don't know the history or condition of the lowest priced example until you view in person. There are so many factors that can drop the value, condition, number of owners, service history, mechanical issues, modifications, etc, etc. When one model is drastically lower in price than all others there is likely an issue, as I found with the 32k 1LE posted above .

Looking at AutoTrader again there are about a dozen 13 Boss non Laguna Seca models priced from 43K down to 32k with mileage under 15k. My car is in perfect condition with 9800 miles so looking at the data I would price my car 35K if I were to list for sale today, hoping for 34k. Toss out the high and low and look at the medium average.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by Oldfart

What's an ample??? I'm assuming it's different than an orange.

whatever it is, it is not a GM lemon law buy back for sale.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I don't go over to that site. I was just reading what was screen-shotted and displayed over here.

It's not worth my time chasing it down either.

Neutrality is one thing. Favoring a car is another thing. I'm not talking neutrality, I'm saying that you prefer the Mustang.

What I prefer is the car in whatever car segment I find myself shopping in that has at least potentially better cornering & handling. Period. Right now, that's the 1LE.

I went with the small Ford over the comparable Chevy in 1971, an intermediate Chevy over the Ford in 1979, and didn't get the opportunity to choose in 2008. Given that the score currently stands tied at 2-2 it really is too close for me to call either way. FWIW, I was seriously considering an AAR 'Cuda before any of the above (my Dad was a dyed-in-the-wool Mopar customer).


Norm

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

It's not worth my time chasing it down either.


What I prefer is the car in whatever car segment I find myself shopping in that has at least potentially better cornering & handling. Period. Right now, that's the 1LE.

I went with the small Ford over the comparable Chevy in 1971, an intermediate Chevy over the Ford in 1979, and didn't get the opportunity to choose in 2008. Given that the score currently stands tied at 2-2 it really is too close for me to call either way. FWIW, I was seriously considering an AAR 'Cuda before any of the above (my Dad was a dyed-in-the-wool Mopar customer).


Norm

Oh man Norm, now you're speaking my language. LOVE the old Mopar's and the Cuda's are the cream of the crop. Such a beautiful car! I am very excited to see what Dodge does with the upcoming Cuda(if it happens).