[Denis]

oh yea, very true

[Ragnar]

I feel bad for the people at the VW dealerships trying to make a living.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Denis

I wonder how that will effect said brands such as Lamborghini and Bugatti.

Lamborghini really woke up when VW purchased them. And Bugatti, the majority of people had never even heard of the brand until recently.



The EB 110 was Bugatti's last vehicle before the Veyron, and it ended production in 1994. im curious if companies like Lambo and Bugatti can survive without backing from major companies like VW...I mean I guess Ferrari does it somehow.

Ferrari is (mostly) owned by Fiat. Its been that way since the 1960s.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by motorhead

That's most corporations for you. They just don't seem to care what happens to the people that work for them as along as they profit. That brings up a thought though. Where are these billions in fines going to? The first place should be to people that worked for VW that will loose their jobs that had nothing to do with what their company did.

The money will almost certainly be staying with the environmental agencies that are so laughably underfunded that things like this emissions scandal can go on for years without any regulators actually noticing.

[BMR Sales]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Ferrari is (mostly) owned by Fiat. Its been that way since the 1960s.

Italian-American car maker Fiat Chrysler Automobiles FCA, -2.15% owns 90% of Ferrari. The rest is owned by Piero Ferrari, the son of the company’s founder.

Ferrari just did an IPO and raised 900 Million. Fiat's share of the company decreased to 80%

[GretchenGotGrowl]

Originally Posted by BMR Sales

Italian-American car maker Fiat Chrysler Automobiles FCA, -2.15% owns 90% of Ferrari. The rest is owned by Piero Ferrari, the son of the company’s founder.

Ferrari just did an IPO and raised 900 Million. Fiat's share of the company decreased to 80%

Marconi can't buy a break. Time for some new leadership.

[Ragnar]

Even the aftermarket will be affected.

[Donald]

Originally Posted by motorhead

That's most corporations for you. They just don't seem to care what happens to the people that work for them as along as they profit. That brings up a thought though. Where are these billions in fines going to? The first place should be to people that worked for VW that will loose their jobs that had nothing to do with what their company did.

Better solution is to have EPA keep money for doing more good and force VW to setup and fund pension plans for those negatively effected. Why take money from EPA to do good else where?

[Snoman]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Ferrari is (mostly) owned by Fiat. Its been that way since the 1960s.

Originally Posted by BMR Sales

Italian-American car maker Fiat Chrysler Automobiles FCA, -2.15% owns 90% of Ferrari. The rest is owned by Piero Ferrari, the son of the company’s founder.

Ferrari just did an IPO and raised 900 Million. Fiat's share of the company decreased to 80%

Fiat no longer owns Ferrari as of October, the company is now 100% public.

9% (1.9MM shares) was (were) sold on the open market for around $900MM. The remaining 81% (17.1MM shares) was (were) "given away" to share holders of Fiat. The Ferrari family might own a theoretical 10% (2 MM shares) per press releases, according to the SEC they do not. No individual, institution or single entity of any kind owns more than 5% of Ferrari. This could very well change legally once the SEC publicizes the remaining 2015 Q4 filings in January.

[Denis]

do you guys think this whole thing will lower the initial cost of a VW vehicle? like if someone was interested in a GTI, would this maybe give them more bargaining power at a dealership?

[BMR Sales]

Originally Posted by Snoman

Fiat no longer owns Ferrari as of October, the company is now 100% public.

9% (1.9MM shares) was (were) sold on the open market for around $900MM. The remaining 81% (17.1MM shares) was (were) "given away" to share holders of Fiat. The Ferrari family might own a theoretical 10% (2 MM shares) per press releases, according to the SEC they do not. No individual, institution or single entity of any kind owns more than 5% of Ferrari. This could very well change legally once the SEC publicizes the remaining 2015 Q4 filings in January.

Everything I've read (and I've read a least a dozen articles) say the same thing

The IPO is of just 10% of the company, which means there will be a limited public float in the hands of a small number of shareholders. At the same time, FCA shareholders will own 80% of the rest of the company, and Piero Ferrari the final 10%. These factors combined may cause volatility in trading and block new shareholders from influencing management decision making.

The FCA Shares I don't believe will be given away, but re-distributed. FCA Shareholders still own 80-81% of Ferrari

[BMR Sales]

Originally Posted by Denis

do you guys think this whole thing will lower the initial cost of a VW vehicle? like if someone was interested in a GTI, would this maybe give them more bargaining power at a dealership?

Down the road, probably! Not right now though. Since Dealers can't sell the TDi's right now til there is a fix, they have very little Inventory. Dealers are screaming for VW to tell them What, How & When. This is more frustrating to Dealers than anyone else, because their customers are asking questions that they can't answer and there is next to zero interest in the Brand.

VW if they want to right the ship needs some re-styling, Price Reductions and longer warranties. They need to under price & out-perform the KIA's, Hyundai's and Honda Brands. Can they do it, yes - will they

[Snoman]

Originally Posted by BMR Sales

Everything I've read (and I've read a least a dozen articles) say the same thing

The IPO is of just 10% of the company, which means there will be a limited public float in the hands of a small number of shareholders. At the same time, FCA shareholders will own 80% of the rest of the company, and Piero Ferrari the final 10%. These factors combined may cause volatility in trading and block new shareholders from influencing management decision making.

The FCA Shares I don't believe will be given away, but re-distributed. FCA Shareholders still own 80-81% of Ferrari

When a public company carves out division to form a new independent public company, the original share holders are handed new shares of stock in the new company at no cost. The easiest way for me to initially wrap my head around this was to simply look at it as a stock split. I used to own 100 shares in company A worth $50 ea, but now I own 100 shares in company A worth $40 ea and 50 shares in company B worth $20 ea. The details themselves are exponentially more complicated than this however, but at the same time it really is this simple.

[Snoman]

The EPA has strict guidelines for the final judgement which has many factors, including "ability to pay". The EPA is in a position to force VAG to liquidate most of it's holdings.

Original Reuters Article

Clean Air Act Vehicle and Engine Enforcement Case Resolutions

Official Department of Justice filing


Summary;

The US EPA charges 500k 2L and 80K 3L engines were;

a) Sold
b) Defeat device was installed
c) Tampered with
d) Failed to tell anyone

EPA asked the US DOJ to award $61+ Billion based on the following;

$32.5k x 500,000 x 3 = $48.8 Billion (2L Engines) plus
$37.5k x 80,000 x 3 = $9 Billion (3L Engines) plus
$2750 x 580,000 = $1.6 Billion plus
$3750 x 580,000 = $2.18 Billion

Guilt has already been established which was the only requirement for judgement. Currently the EPA is calculating what VAG can reasonably pay, aka how much to squeeze and the economic fall out. For reference, Toyota was sued for $58B around 2000 and the case settled for $35B (~60%) and given VAG net value, a settlement of $40B seems plausible although the EPA also has to leave enough on the table for the European nations.