[SGDM]

Originally Posted by Joe's_cool_1le

Last little piece of info which adds to this thread from them.
If you want over 625 RWHP we have to talk about a cam with a 32% fuel lobe, LT4 HPFP, LPFP upgraded injectors for proper fueling.

They did mention that I could start with the Whipple alone that would at a minimum get me 550 to the wheels with piece of mind and includes warranty. Then if I get bored I could go the other route above that i mentioned.

Seems like good advise right?

My car makes over 600 and 640 TQ with stock fuel system. You will need to grind the cam for fuel lobe. Easy day.

[Slowhawk]

We run meth systems on probably 95% of our FI systems we do. That is a lot on 15 years.
As for fire concern , I see the point with the tank out front. Have had a few customers total there cars at high speed and destroy the tanks. No fires so far.Being in front of the fire wall that is fire protection. A crash can also split fuel lines ect.

[Speedy1975]

This is a timely thread for me. I just completed a water/meth injection setup on my supercharged Toyota 4Runner. It has a TRD (aka Magnuson M62) supercharger on it's 3.4L V6 engine. This particular setup did NOT include an intercooler as there was no room under the hood for it and Toyota didn't think it necessary for the 6psi boost it was offered with and nor did it come with any sort of tuning. Toyota sold it through their parts departments as a bolt on and go solution and for the "most" part it is.

I upgraded to a 9psi pulley and added a 7th injector kit that allowed crude but MUCH better fueling and a bit of timing control (again crude and I could remove timing but not add any or set it to a specific advance).

The problem was that after a couple WOT pulls, the car's factory programming would pull major timing due to heat. Not a huge deal for a 4Runner, but definitely noticeable. I drove it fine like this for 10 years.

Then I got bored.

I put a Coolingmist water/meth kit on it that includes a progressive controller that does double duty as the boost gauge. I settled on -20 washer fluid with a 12oz bottle of Heet added. This is about $3 total. One washer tank lasts me 2 tanks of gas give or take. The water content keeps it from being super flammable as the flashpoint is reasonable. No more so than your washer fluid is today.

HUGE difference in performance was realized. Now all pulls are consistent and the factory computer added about 6-7 degrees of timing all on it's own. The truck is MUCH happier. Without the water/meth injection I'd see about 12 degrees of timing max. Now, I'm at about 19 degrees of timing at WOT and upper RPM. That's a huge difference.

Having said all of that, the 4Runner is NOT tunable. I did this to force the factory tune to give me what I wanted, more power. This is also going to allow me to go to a 11psi pulley on the supercharger for even more power. I almost doubled the horsepower on the truck already and it's been good to go for 10 years. The 11psi pulley is just under the limit of the M62 blower and that's where I'll stop.

On my Challenger that IS tunable, I chose NOT to run water/meth injection. My tuner already has me set on 93 octane and I would not be comfortable adding water/meth injection AND tuning for it. Too much can go wrong and cost you an engine. I also would NOT see any benefit in adding it if it WASN'T tuned for. It's just wasted money as your pump gas tune should already be safe from your tuner. If you want more, spend the money for some 109 unleaded race fuel for the track and have your tuner make you a 109 octane tune. That's what I do in the Challenger. 109 octane tune adds about 60RWHP.

That's my un-solicited .02 cents.

[ProCharger]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

This is a timely thread for me. I just completed a water/meth injection setup on my supercharged Toyota 4Runner. It has a TRD (aka Magnuson M62) supercharger on it's 3.4L V6 engine. This particular setup did NOT include an intercooler as there was no room under the hood for it and Toyota didn't think it necessary for the 6psi boost it was offered with and nor did it come with any sort of tuning. Toyota sold it through their parts departments as a bolt on and go solution and for the "most" part it is.

I upgraded to a 9psi pulley and added a 7th injector kit that allowed crude but MUCH better fueling and a bit of timing control (again crude and I could remove timing but not add any or set it to a specific advance).

The problem was that after a couple WOT pulls, the car's factory programming would pull major timing due to heat. Not a huge deal for a 4Runner, but definitely noticeable. I drove it fine like this for 10 years.

Then I got bored.

I put a Coolingmist water/meth kit on it that includes a progressive controller that does double duty as the boost gauge. I settled on -20 washer fluid with a 12oz bottle of Heet added. This is about $3 total. One washer tank lasts me 2 tanks of gas give or take. The water content keeps it from being super flammable as the flashpoint is reasonable. No more so than your washer fluid is today.

HUGE difference in performance was realized. Now all pulls are consistent and the factory computer added about 6-7 degrees of timing all on it's own. The truck is MUCH happier. Without the water/meth injection I'd see about 12 degrees of timing max. Now, I'm at about 19 degrees of timing at WOT and upper RPM. That's a huge difference.

Having said all of that, the 4Runner is NOT tunable. I did this to force the factory tune to give me what I wanted, more power. This is also going to allow me to go to a 11psi pulley on the supercharger for even more power. I almost doubled the horsepower on the truck already and it's been good to go for 10 years. The 11psi pulley is just under the limit of the M62 blower and that's where I'll stop.

On my Challenger that IS tunable, I chose NOT to run water/meth injection. My tuner already has me set on 93 octane and I would not be comfortable adding water/meth injection AND tuning for it. Too much can go wrong and cost you an engine. I also would NOT see any benefit in adding it if it WASN'T tuned for. It's just wasted money as your pump gas tune should already be safe from your tuner. If you want more, spend the money for some 109 unleaded race fuel for the track and have your tuner make you a 109 octane tune. That's what I do in the Challenger. 109 octane tune adds about 60RWHP.

That's my un-solicited .02 cents.

Your Challenger isn't fuel system limited as much as the Camaro.

And I guess if you were running a meth system on a large amount of boost, on a supercharger that creates a lot of heat, on a application with NO tune and had great results.

It seems thats the best example of how GOOD a solidly installed meth system can work. LOL. Cause man you literally had the deck stacked against it. LOL. No intercooler, No tune, random injector for fueling...DANG!


Thanks for the well informed post!

[AlwaysAmerican]

Originally Posted by JoeAyalaM

Exactly my point, even a not so hard crash but on the right spot, could have any of those tanks leaking and or splashing Meth all over...

And let´s be honest, if anybody mods their DD car with a SC, it is because they like to drive it fast, so there is more risk of an accident.

Honestly it's behind the firewall and if my car goes up in flames from an accident... Well that's what full coverage is for. I'd be out of that car quicker than the Kardashians starting another season of that god awful show.

When the limitations are reached, there's only so much you can do.
I ended up with Methanol and going to be installing a dry nitrous system along my intercooler to help with temperature especially since I live in a place where 110+ is common during the summers.

It's not for everyone as been stated, but believe it's a necessary evil for higher numbers on the dyno for that "my d**k is bigger than yours" contest

[lcarney1977]

PROCHARGER is the way to go love my D-1 procharger 6th gen... im at 565RWHP and 515Tq car is a beast... not running meth yet but plan on doing meth and cam down the road..

[ProCharger]

Originally Posted by lcarney1977

PROCHARGER is the way to go love my D-1 procharger 6th gen... im at 565RWHP and 515Tq car is a beast... not running meth yet but plan on doing meth and cam down the road..

On cars that I tune like yours... I can gain right at 80-100hp, with a single meth kit, and 2 extra PSI. (usually drop 2 tenths of an inch on pulley size)

You will be easy ~660 wheel with your combo.
And solid mid 10's at the track with traction.

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by ProCharger

Your Challenger isn't fuel system limited as much as the Camaro.

And I guess if you were running a meth system on a large amount of boost, on a supercharger that creates a lot of heat, on a application with NO tune and had great results.

It seems thats the best example of how GOOD a solidly installed meth system can work. LOL. Cause man you literally had the deck stacked against it. LOL. No intercooler, No tune, random injector for fueling...DANG!


Thanks for the well informed post!

No the Challenger is definitely not fuel limited. I put in 80lbs per hour injectors and dual 255LPH pumps. It makes a little over 600RWHP on pump gas and runs 10.80s at about 130MPH at the track. Manual 6 speed car.

The Camaro with the DI LT1 seems to hit the fuel wall at 575RWHP. For the weight of the car that's a lot of power and is an easy 10 second ride. Sure you can push further with additional fueling (like meth injection), but there is much greater risk. My 4Runner will just pull timing again if the meth runs out. No big deal. With the Camaro tuned for meth, if the tank runs dry, the pump fails, leaks, etc, you can lose the motor. Newer meth kits have some built in safeties to mitigate some of this, but I'd still be leery of bumping the timing up on the meth to take real advantage of it. If an owner is cool with that, they should also be cool with replacing the engine as well. Not saying it will happen, but you do need to be prepared.

[ProCharger]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

Newer meth kits have some built in safeties to mitigate some of this, but I'd still be leery of bumping the timing up on the meth to take real advantage of it. If an owner is cool with that, they should also be cool with replacing the engine as well. Not saying it will happen, but you do need to be prepared.

There is a way to tune around that, to make sure a person knows when its not working. That's how I set up peoples that I tune....There for you are not relying on any other outside method other then the factory ECU.

If the meth kit doesn't come on, you end up missing about 300hp.

Trust me, you feel the difference and instantly lift off the gas.

[Ian SS]

I mean......if I spent all this money going F/I and running a custom meth kit, I would check the fluid level every time I drove the car, even if it was to get my nans groceries down the street.

I literally cannot fathom how anyone could just run out of meth.

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by ProCharger

There is a way to tune around that, to make sure a person knows when its not working. That's how I set up peoples that I tune....There for you are not relying on any other outside method other then the factory ECU.

If the meth kit doesn't come on, you end up missing about 300hp.

Trust me, you feel the difference and instantly lift off the gas.

That would certainly address my concern

[sub_ETCS_ret]

Originally Posted by ProCharger

There is a way to tune around that, to make sure a person knows when its not working. That's how I set up peoples that I tune....There for you are not relying on any other outside method other then the factory ECU.

If the meth kit doesn't come on, you end up missing about 300hp.

Trust me, you feel the difference and instantly lift off the gas.

Is that a trade secret? Is it a nugget you would be willing to share with the group?

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[EDFHOBBIES]

Originally Posted by SGDM

My car makes over 600 and 640 TQ with stock fuel system. You will need to grind the cam for fuel lobe. Easy day.

When you say stock fuel system... your running 93 only not a mixture of 93/110 or torquo? and Not the LT4 pump or injectors?

[SGDM]

Originally Posted by EDFHOBBIES

When you say stock fuel system... your running 93 only not a mixture of 93/110 or torquo? and Not the LT4 pump or injectors?

Yes sir you are correct. 93 pump gas.