[ChicagoTommy]

Originally Posted by Nate...

This seems like a large generalization. Properly atomized fuel should see minimal variance in flow compared to the air it is in. Can you explain your comment about 5 cylinder engines? One huge argument against PI is the need for a controller that understands firing order and can be tuned. 5th port can "batch fire". I want to make it clear that I do not disagree that a PI solution would be more ideal. I just think some of the downsides need to be understood while we are proposing theoretical solutions to a yet to be encountered fueling shortage. What are your thoughts? Do you know of a wiring harness splice or controller that works well for this stuff?



Sure, I agree. Pointing out that this requires a controller and likely additional sensors like a crank position sensor. Without very well tuned controls the pooling of the PI setup against the back of the intake valves would be extreme compared to a 5th port solution.
Have you done PI aux fueling on any of your previous cars/builds? What control strategy did you use to prevent pooling?

Megasquirt should work with your existing sensors. A lot of people are using these on 'low buck' LSx builds.

https://www.diyautotune.com/product/...ssembled-unit/

We ran an AEM piggyback on the EVO8 race car.

[Nate...]

Originally Posted by ChicagoTommy

Megasquirt should work with your existing sensors. A lot of people are using these on 'low buck' LSx builds.

https://www.diyautotune.com/product/...ssembled-unit/

We ran an AEM piggyback on the EVO8 race car.

For sure. I have put together a few Megasquirts with friends for Miata standalone setups. The last piggyback setup I did was with an old TurboLINK controller on my turbo miata. That was not great to work with IMHO. haha.

[Jason@JacFab]

Bump for all the new people interested in discussing fueling... Please feel free to read from the beginning for all the good info you've been missing out on...

[6th_gen_gino]

Originally Posted by Jason@JacFab

Bump for all the new people interested in discussing fueling... Please feel free to read from the beginning for all the good info you've been missing out on...

Ty sir

[Jason@JacFab]

Although I can't say because there are no published flow ratings on any of these OE pumps, I would think that any of the 2.0 pumps wouldn't make enough of a difference even if there was one that was slightly higher volume than another...

I'm leaning towards trying to adapt a pump from a v8, assuming one flows more. We know the LT4 pump flows more, but its pricey.

I'd be willing to setup a test rig with an extra cam and stuff to test pumps. Especially if some people would want to chip in some cash for parts I'll need like fuel line, fittings, external "in tank" pump Etc...


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[ChicagoTommy]

Originally Posted by Jason@JacFab

Although I can't say because there are no published flow ratings on any of these OE pumps, I would think that any of the 2.0 pumps wouldn't make enough of a difference even if there was one that was slightly higher volume than another...

I'm leaning towards trying to adapt a pump from a v8, assuming one flows more. We know the LT4 pump flows more, but its pricey.

I'd be willing to setup a test rig with an extra cam and stuff to test pumps. Especially if some people would want to chip in some cash for parts I'll need like fuel line, fittings, external "in tank" pump Etc...


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Is there a way to setup a gofundme/kickstarter/patreon? I'm in if you can find a way to transparently account for funds. Maybe give people some of their dough back if you develop and market a product? Like if you develop a fuel product, someone 'donates' $20 to the testing product, then maybe that person could get $20 off a final fuel system product? Perhaps that would get some interest going?

[ChicagoTommy]

Originally Posted by cooper1965

^^I'm in for something like this also! Not something I want to spend the time on...Nor have the capabilities...
I've done some crude -on car- testing with a couple pumps, but no real differences noted. Strange thing though..., each of these pumps, has a different in-tank fuel module.

You've taken your tank out?

[PinHead]

Originally Posted by Nate...

Pressure and volume should be directly related.

Generally. As fuel pressure increases, volume output decreases.

[psykostevo]

Originally Posted by PinHead

Generally. As fuel pressure increases, volume output decreases.

Um, are we talking in terms of Mass or Dimensionally?

Your ECU will command a certain amount of Fuel Mass that is calculated from a combination of Fuel Pressure, Start of Injection Angle, End of Injection Angle, sometimes fuel temperature, etc, and then attempt to hit that calculated amount of fuel mass by controlling the Fuel Injector Pulsewidth (spray time).

If you arbitrarily increase fuel pressure, the ECU will quickly figure that out and will compensate by reducing the injector pulsewidth (also known as Fuel Trims).

The same amount of volume on average will come out, because a certain amount is required to hit target AFRs. Now, if you hit a physical limitation, such as the HPFP is commanding a pressure and engine needs a specific flow rate, and now the in-tank pump can't keep up.....then you have a different story.

[2.0t_godfather]

I have a 5th gen zl1 pump in my tank. We have not successfully maxed out the factory fuel pump yet with the ZZP cams. If I was a gambling man its going to happen around 460-475whp. That begs the question where your power goals are. If you don't feel that its going to be much north of that, run the cams and pump in tank and go.

[AdamJT11]

Originally Posted by 2.0t_godfather

I have a 5th gen zl1 pump in my tank. We have not successfully maxed out the factory fuel pump yet with the ZZP cams. If I was a gambling man its going to happen around 460-475whp. That begs the question where your power goals are. If you don't feel that its going to be much north of that, run the cams and pump in tank and go.

Good to know. So was the in tank pump maxed out before you switched to the 5th gen ZL1 pump? But the HPFP is still not maxed out?

[dpelow07]

Originally Posted by 2.0t_godfather

I have a 5th gen zl1 pump in my tank. We have not successfully maxed out the factory fuel pump yet with the ZZP cams. If I was a gambling man its going to happen around 460-475whp. That begs the question where your power goals are. If you don't feel that its going to be much north of that, run the cams and pump in tank and go.

why did you choose the 5th gen zl1 pump instead of a aem or any other brand? Is the zl1 pump plug and play?

[ChicagoTommy]

Does anyone know the ZL1 pumps flow rate? LPH??

[Zzsteve]

Originally Posted by dpelow07

why did you choose the 5th gen zl1 pump instead of a aem or any other brand? Is the zl1 pump plug and play?

it took a combination of the ZL1 canister, and the OEM canister, but it can be made to work. We used the ZL1 pump to maintain OEM reliability, and functionality. and they are surprisingly cheap.