[FATTEMUNK]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

My ability to afford the cars is irrelevant and a pointless ad hominem attack.

Who pays half a million dollars for a car powered by a V6 out of a Ford pickup. Ah yes instead of the sexy, fast, great sounding Z06/ZR1, 720S, Huracan, 488 GTB or Viper, I'll take the twin turbo hair dryer. The last Ford GT is awesome and I have no idea what they were thinking putting at V6 in there. Well while I don't agree with BlaqWhole's expression, I think the point he was trying to make is that you are talking smack about a car he owns and making assumptions while he actually knows because he owns the car. While I think we should reserve final judgement on the new S550 refresh till more reviews come to light and till they have a head to head, we are entitled to have our opinions to the outcome. I'm really interested on Randy Pobst's opinions on the two cars. The only guy on that show who has any business around cars. Half these car journalists prob cant even change their cars oil. And also I think the Ford GT will only hold its value because its so limited and Ford literally chose its owners. Terrible business choice if you ask me. If it was produced in mass quantity like the Corvette, it would have a terrible resale. TT V6 will never be more desireable than a SC V8 and think most people will agree. (Except GTR fanboys, but they are all special)

[FATTEMUNK]

Originally Posted by FATTEMUNK

Who pays half a million dollars for a car powered by a V6 out of a Ford pickup. Ah yes instead of the sexy, fast, great sounding Z06/ZR1, 720S, Huracan, 488 GTB or Viper, I'll take the twin turbo hair dryer. The last Ford GT is awesome and I have no idea what they were thinking putting at V6 in there. Well while I don't agree with BlaqWhole's expression, I think the point he was trying to make is that you are talking smack about a car he owns and making assumptions while he actually knows because he owns the car. While I think we should reserve final judgement on the new S550 refresh till more reviews come to light and till they have a head to head, we are entitled to have our opinions to the outcome. I'm really interested on Randy Pobst's opinions on the two cars. The only guy on that show who has any business around cars. Half these car journalists prob cant even change their cars oil. And also I think the Ford GT will only hold its value because its so limited and Ford literally chose its owners. Terrible business choice if you ask me. If it was produced in mass quantity like the Corvette, it would have a terrible resale. TT V6 will never be more desireable than a SC V8 and think most people will agree. (Except GTR fanboys, but they are all special)

Wow, now that I do some more research on cars in that price bracket, there are so many better options. Aventador, F12 Berlinetta, Noble, LFA, AMG GT/R, Carrera GT. Some of the best sounding engines ever made are in that list. Like the V12 in the Aventador and the V10s in the LFA and Carrera GT will make even a non car guy tremble. The GT sounds like the kid on the block with his moms old Taurus and did a muffler delete. Sorry for getting off topic but goddamn is the Ford GT a waste of money.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by FATTEMUNK

I think the point he was trying to make is that you are talking smack about a car he owns and making assumptions while he actually knows because he owns the car.

...where?

I wasn't talking trash about either the ZL1 or the Hellcat..

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

The same thing happened in 2012, however the ZL1 won out over the GT500 due to "feeling" and other non-objective qualifiers.

There was far more then "feel" in the 2012 ZL1 win. Very objective IMO.

At the end of our road loops, the response from the editors was consistent. The Mustang was simply harder to drive fast. ...you’ll be faster and more confident behind the wheel of the Camaro.

The Camaro, though, was faster in the corners and pulled higher g’s in nearly every turn. ...the cars were dead even exiting the final corner. The Mustang laid down the faster lap solely by virtue of its 82-horsepower, 75-lb-ft advantage in a drag race up the front straight to the finish line.

While the Mustang was a half-second faster around the track than the ZL1 on its best lap, it couldn’t repeat the performance. By the end of the first lap, the brakes had already begun to heat up so badly, we could smell them from the pits as the car passed by on the front straight.. By the end of the second lap, the Shelby had lost more than half of its advantage over the ZL1, turning a 1:39.03. By the third lap, the Mustang was behind the Camaro, turning a 1:39.30. The ZL1, meanwhile, never deviated by more than two-tenths of a second.

At the track, though, Randy complained of serious fade. “Brakes lack bite, worse each lap,” he noted. “Feels like it doesn’t want to stop. Disconcerting.” We took a look under the cars, and where the Camaro had obvious ductwork to provide cool air to the front brakes, the Mustang had none.

So, yes, the Mustang turned a faster lap, but if it’s not repeatable, is it really a win? Find a 2.23-mile autocross and you might have something, but in any road race, the Mustang is going to quickly fall behind.

“I think I’d go Camaro just because of the braking confidence,” Pobst summarized. “I don’t like that feeling of pushing hard and just not getting enough braking g’s.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevr...-shelby-gt500/

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

My ability to afford the cars is irrelevant and a pointless ad hominem attack.

Well it wasn't an "attack" cupcake. I was only trying to narrow down which car I was talking about. Hey, you asked...

Originally Posted by hotlap

There was far more then "feel" in the 2012 ZL1 win. Very objective IMO.

Good find!!

[ULTRAZLS1]

latest dyno. ~38x rwhp 36x rwtq depending on pull.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

latest dyno. ~38x rwhp 36x rwtq depending on pull.

And the worst looking engine cover in history...

[2011shelby]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

And the worst looking engine cover in history...

Myself, I believe all engine covers look like crap.

Never was a fan of the new body style on the Mustang and this refresh looks even worse.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

If you want to see a hero run, wait until you start seing high 11's in -1500 DA.

And it's funny that some camaro folk are clinging to the idea that the very first 1/4 mile time published has to be a hero run lol. Pot meet kettle. Talk about clinging.

Touche. I know your pot meet kettle comment was meant in general and not to me, as I could not care less about 1/4 mile times. My choice of cars should speak to that. Also, you have to look objectively at this and see why people are skeptical. That's a huge leap for a refresh. No real reason at this point to think that's the norm, but it could be.

Admittedly, me calling this a hero run is just as bad as the Mustang guys taking it as truth. It is too early for me to call it a hero when it is possible we see this being a repeatable time in hands of normal customers, just like its too early for Mustang trolls to come over here and start praising this time as the norm for the Mustang.

For that, I admit I am wrong. We all need to chill on this 1 time, and see what shakes out. None of us know what this new GT is capable of as of yet, we have only seen a glimpse of what it could potentially do.

As negative as I have spoken, its really out of frustration for the pile Ford presented to the market. Before I started digging deeper, I thought I would
be a Mustang owner. On the surface, the GT is a killer package. Great looks, amazing engine, excellent pricing....but then the persistent issues come up when you spend even a few days on the other forum. Its easy to get lost in all the issue threads. You don't even have to search for them, there's always a fresh one being discussed. GM doesn't exactly have a squeaky clean record of superb quality either mind you, but damn Ford really sh!t the bed this Gen. If I was a Ford Fanboy I would be pissed!!!! This GT has clearly taken a leap forward and joined the rest of the Pony cars, but it is still going to be a poor quality package overall.

For once, I just want Ford to build complete cars as well as they build engines!!

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

LOL! Well, the fact that they're even talking about me all the way over there (again, not the first time I might add) and that I don't really care about anything over there tells you all you need to know. The fact that they're soo pissed at me that many of them are making accounts and swarming over here (not the first time either) is pathetic. And the fact that they're "salivating over the POSSIBILITY that the Mustang COULD BE equal to or faster than the 6th Gen"...haha! That says it all.

It really says a lot doesn't it!!! HAHAHAHAHA, like I said......it has been a ROUGH go for that crowd. By "that crowd", I just mean the blind Ford fanboys, and NOT the regular people that bought a car they thought was something it isn't.

[Speedofsound]

I'm not sure if we can get a true WHP out of the A10. 1:1 goes past the speed limited at 155 (6000rpm). We might just have to use manual numbers.

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Touche. I know your pot meet kettle comment was meant in general and not to me, as I could not care less about 1/4 mile times. My choice of cars should speak to that. Also, you have to look objectively at this and see why people are skeptical. That's a huge leap for a refresh. No real reason at this point to think that's the norm, but it could be.

Admittedly, me calling this a hero run is just as bad as the Mustang guys taking it as truth. It is too early for me to call it a hero when it is possible we see this being a repeatable time in hands of normal customers, just like its too early for Mustang trolls to come over here and start praising this time as the norm for the Mustang.

For that, I admit I am wrong. We all need to chill on this 1 time, and see what shakes out. None of us know what this new GT is capable of as of yet, we have only seen a glimpse of what it could potentially do.

As negative as I have spoken, its really out of frustration for the pile Ford presented to the market. Before I started digging deeper, I thought I would
be a Mustang owner. On the surface, the GT is a killer package. Great looks, amazing engine, excellent pricing....but then the persistent issues come up when you spend even a few days on the other forum. Its easy to get lost in all the issue threads. You don't even have to search for them, there's always a fresh one being discussed. GM doesn't exactly have a squeaky clean record of superb quality either mind you, but damn Ford really sh!t the bed this Gen. If I was a Ford Fanboy I would be pissed!!!! This GT has clearly taken a leap forward and joined the rest of the Pony cars, but it is still going to be a poor quality package overall.

For once, I just want Ford to build complete cars as well as they build engines!!

I agree, it’s too early to tell exactly what this run means in the grand scheme of things. Will it be the norm, who knows.

I think we can all drop both assumptions though that this was a hero run (as it wasn’t run in negative DA by any stretch or the imagination). Those that need to think that the car was somehow modified, so be it. It’s a strange argument if you ask me.

Honestly, the problems that people have with the mustang are blown way out of proportion. The loudest voices are always those that have the biggest issues. That doesn’t mean it’s the norm. No car is perfect. Before I made any decisions on vehicles I visited both warranty and issue sections. Mustangs seemed to have some driveline vibration issues (not as many as some of you make it out to be), AC leaks and MT82 shifting clunks. The camaro has had persistent issues with windshield fogging, headliners cut too short and various suspension bolts backing off. The fact that the mustang seems to have more issues is likely because it’s now in its 4th model year and has far more cars on the road compared to the camaro.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

I agree, it’s too early to tell exactly what this run means in the grand scheme of things. Will it be the norm, who knows.

I think we can all drop both assumptions though that this was a hero run (as it wasn’t run in negative DA by any stretch or the imagination). Those that need to think that the car was somehow modified, so be it. It’s a strange argument if you ask me.

Honestly, the problems that people have with the mustang are blown way out of proportion. The loudest voices are always those that have the biggest issues. That doesn’t mean it’s the norm. No car is perfect. Before I made any decisions on vehicles I visited both warranty and issue sections. Mustangs seemed to have some driveline vibration issues (not as many as some of you make it out to be), AC leaks and MT82 shifting clunks. The camaro has had persistent issues with windshield fogging, headliners cut too short and various suspension bolts backing off. The fact that the mustang seems to have more issues is likely because it’s now in its 4th model year and has far more cars on the road compared to the camaro.

Agreed, way too much assuming going on in both camps. Granted, this is awesome for the Mustang to get such an aggressive refresh, so both camps are noticeably excited and on opposing sides as usual hahaha. No reason we can't be civil, especially over here on this forum which usually seems to be the more open and accepting of the 2 forums. I got chased off that forum real quick, and never got close to the debates we have been having here. There are some soft egos and short tempers over there.

As far as the issues go, let's just agree to disagree. It is hard to prove either way, and in the end of the day we all have different comfort levels and have different views of certain issues. For me, the MT-82 is unacceptably bad after my extremely positive experience with the Tremec in my 5th Gen Camaro. For me, it was way too unacceptable for a transmission like that to show up in a 'new' generation car. I waited as long as I could to see if they would hand down the Tremec from the GT350 in the refresh, but got word they weren't and bought my M3 and couldnt be happier. The manual transmission was the only issue I was not personally willing to deal with. The manual transmission is SUCH a big part of why I buy cars like this, that it was no longer worth the purchase with the MT-82 dragging down my joy.

The other issues are hard to preach about when you look at the price you used to be able to get a Mustang for, hard to be upset at that point. Interested to see how sales compare now that the Mustang no longer has a price advantage, and has closed the gap in performance.....as it seems now anyway.

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Agreed, way too much assuming going on in both camps. Granted, this is awesome for the Mustang to get such an aggressive refresh, so both camps are noticeably excited and on opposing sides as usual hahaha. No reason we can't be civil, especially over here on this forum which usually seems to be the more open and accepting of the 2 forums. I got chased off that forum real quick, and never got close to the debates we have been having here. There are some soft egos and short tempers over there.

As far as the issues go, let's just agree to disagree. It is hard to prove either way, and in the end of the day we all have different comfort levels and have different views of certain issues. For me, the MT-82 is unacceptably bad after my extremely positive experience with the Tremec in my 5th Gen Camaro. For me, it was way too unacceptable for a transmission like that to show up in a 'new' generation car. I waited as long as I could to see if they would hand down the Tremec from the GT350 in the refresh, but got word they weren't and bought my M3 and couldnt be happier. The manual transmission was the only issue I was not personally willing to deal with. The manual transmission is SUCH a big part of why I buy cars like this, that it was no longer worth the purchase with the MT-82 dragging down my joy.

The other issues are hard to preach about when you look at the price you used to be able to get a Mustang for, hard to be upset at that point. Interested to see how sales compare now that the Mustang no longer has a price advantage, and has closed the gap in performance.....as it seems now anyway.