[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Mr. Meh

The thread here and the one over on M6G read like people making passive-aggressive Facebook comments about each other.

Sometimes people get so caught up in trying to be better, that they forget that it's nice to have a rival. It makes you both stronger.

--- "A wise man can learn more from his enemies than a fool from his friends."

VERY true! Neither car would be what they are today without each other pushing them to test their limits. Without competition, we would have no performance cars worth buying.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

VERY true! Neither car would be what they are today without each other pushing them to test their limits. Without competition, we would have no performance cars worth buying.

Amen. This Al Oppenheiser quote says it all.

You know we read every Internet buzz about Mustang, and I’m sure they read everything about ours and everybody benefits because we’re both trying to beat each other up on a daily basis and the ponycar customers win. Dave [Pericak, chief engineer of the Mustang] signed a poster of a Boss 302 Laguna Seca for me, “Al, Best Wishes, Dave Pericak.” You can see it if you walk by my office, and I’ve written below it, “Keep them in the rearview mirror because they will try to overtake.”

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/take-...l-oppenheiser/

I can't wait to see if that 750 HP ZR1 engine end up in the 2020 Camaro. Go for the complete kill in the gen6

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by FATTEMUNK

? He's just saying wait for more sources to do the test aswell. Don't just take one source's hero run. They conveniently left out how many runs they did before posting that run. That wasn't the first pull. Also Camaro guys were fine with the GT350 because the SS 1LE is on par with it's performance for alot less. What they weren't happy with was that the ZL1 was faster and better in every regard to the GT350 and the two clowns on motortrend picked it for " feeling." Not an objective comparison. Objectively Chevy is bashing Ford on every playing field and it won't change with the new ZR1. It will smash the GT for less money. Mark my words.

They got the 12.0 run on their 6th pass of the day before getting rained out, the facebook live video mentioned that.

The only thing I would argue on that GT350 vs ZL1 test was if it was just about numbers then why bother testing them or any vehicles for that matter. you could just look at the stats and determine winners. There has to be some subjectivity in these reviews or there is no point in doing them. you want something where the best score is always going to win, stick to sports.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by FATTEMUNK

? He's just saying wait for more sources to do the test aswell. Don't just take one source's hero run. They conveniently left out how many runs they did before posting that run.

It was run Six.

Originally Posted by FATTEMUNK

That wasn't the first pull. Also Camaro guys were fine with the GT350 because the SS 1LE is on par with it's performance for alot less. What they weren't happy with was that the ZL1 was faster and better in every regard to the GT350 and the two clowns on motortrend picked it for " feeling."

The same thing happened in 2012, however the ZL1 won out over the GT500 due to "feeling" and other non-objective qualifiers.

Originally Posted by FATTEMUNK

Not an objective comparison. Objectively Chevy is bashing Ford on every playing field and it won't change with the new ZR1. It will smash the GT for less money. Mark my words.

And the GT will hold it's value for decades, where the ZR1 will begin depreciating like a stone.

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Well that depends. What are you comparing LMR's run to?



Mustang guys will only read and understand what they want to understand. And they have a difficult time keeping up with the flow of a conversation. I had explained that to both of these guys several times and they still don't understand...or don't want to understand...or pretend like they don't understand.

You're narrative has been that because the 1/4 mile wasn't done by a magazine, that they had to have modified the car in some way...and that the numbers can't be trusted. You claimed their numbers were invalid because they had all day at the track. You ignore the fact that this was a stock car that is capable of sub 12 second 1/4 miles in negate DA.

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Its been hard being a Mustang guy this generation. You can tell by how tightly they're clinging to LMR's hero run. Taking lumps from a completely stock Camaro has to hurt, and that is Fords fault.

They so badly need a performer to show up, thought it was the GT350, but that thing is a total mechanical liability. You don't know if its gonna die on the road or catch on fire, likely both. HAHA...I kid there, but seriously you have to be out of your mind to buy that car or have a VERY healthy risk appetite, or just have no idea what your are getting yourself in to.

Now, they come over here, with accounts as new as LMR's hero run looking for some sort of warm welcome. We all know they are trolling, the timing itself speaks to that. Coincidence? Heck Nah.

Still, as annoying as the trolling is, at least there is a reason to talk stock v stock Camaro v Mustang again.

If you want to see a hero run, wait until you start seing high 11's in -1500 DA.

And it's funny that some camaro folk are clinging to the idea that the very first 1/4 mile time published has to be a hero run lol. Pot meet kettle. Talk about clinging.

Originally Posted by shaffe

They got the 12.0 run on their 6th pass of the day before getting rained out, the facebook live video mentioned that.

The only thing I would argue on that GT350 vs ZL1 test was if it was just about numbers then why bother testing them or any vehicles for that matter. you could just look at the stats and determine winners. There has to be some subjectivity in these reviews or there is no point in doing them. you want something where the best score is always going to win, stick to sports.

Exactly!

Will all GT's run 12 flat or better? Nope, but it most certainly points to the mustang being a dead heat with the current camaro....especially with a 117mph trap speed!

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Mr. Meh

The thread here and the one over on M6G read like people making passive-aggressive Facebook comments about each other.

Sometimes people get so caught up in trying to be better, that they forget that it's nice to have a rival. It makes you both stronger.

--- "A wise man can learn more from his enemies than a fool from his friends."

LOL, I certainly think that I am more aggressive than I am passive-aggressive. I don't like them over on M6G which is the reason I stay away from there. They come over here trolling quite often. And that's cool if they have nothing else to do. It's a bit high-schoolish but I don't care. And I have no issue stating my dislike for certain years of the GT. People read that and get all pissy and think I'm saying that all GT or all Mustangs are bad. They aren't. I give credit where credit is due. The GTs up to 93 were awesome. Then from 94-2010 they took a serious leap backwards and couldn't keep up. 11-14 were awesome (besides the issues that plague them). Then in 15 they took another leap back. For 18 it looks like they're on the money but we have yet to see an official test. Mustang fanboys will read this comment and get mad when I've said nothing untrue.

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Its been hard being a Mustang guy this generation. You can tell by how tightly they're clinging to LMR's hero run. Taking lumps from a completely stock Camaro has to hurt, and that is Fords fault.

They so badly need a performer to show up, thought it was the GT350, but that thing is a total mechanical liability. You don't know if its gonna die on the road or catch on fire, likely both. HAHA...I kid there, but seriously you have to be out of your mind to buy that car or have a VERY healthy risk appetite, or just have no idea what your are getting yourself in to.

Now, they come over here, with accounts as new as LMR's hero run looking for some sort of warm welcome. We all know they are trolling, the timing itself speaks to that. Coincidence? Heck Nah.

Still, as annoying as the trolling is, at least there is a reason to talk stock v stock Camaro v Mustang again.

I completely agree.

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Then in 15 they took another leap back.

Every magazine review (which you seem to covet so much) adamantly disagrees with this statement. Same 1/4 mile performance (albeit a bit more difficult to launch), but FAR better handling, better interior, better....we'll, everything. But hey, what do they know

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

The same thing happened in 2012, however the ZL1 won out over the GT500 due to "feeling" and other non-objective qualifiers.

The ZL1 actually beat the GT500 for numerous reasons. The GT500 won in performance. But it lost due to old tech, not having many options, the ZL1 was praised for the MRC, and a few other things the ZL1 had is what gave it the win. The Shelby won ONLY due to it's "feel" which they conveniently could not describe, the exhaust note which their sound guy weighed in on (as if anyone cared what he thought), and that it was "special". So the win the ZL1 took in 2012 is in no way comparable to the win the Shelby took this time.

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

And the GT will hold it's value for decades, where the ZR1 will begin depreciating like a stone.

No, the ZR1 won't depreciate like a stone. And no, the Shelby will not hold it's value for decades. The Shelby is already showing huge decreases in pricing as it is. And considering the ADMs that people paid, on average, right out the door they have already lost more money than the ZR1 will. Not to mention that Ford has nothing that will compete with the ZR1 anyway...even the C6 ZR1, lol!!

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

You're narrative has been that because the 1/4 mile wasn't done by a magazine, that they had to have modified the car in some way...and that the numbers can't be trusted. You claimed their numbers were invalid because they had all day at the track. You ignore the fact that this was a stock car that is capable of sub 12 second 1/4 miles in negate DA.

Cool story.

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

If you want to see a hero run, wait until you start seing high 11's in -1500 DA.

Well the Camaros and Challengers have already been doing that soo...

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

Will all GT's run 12 flat or better? Nope, but it most certainly points to the mustang being a dead heat with the current camaro....especially with a 117mph trap speed!

And none of us are impressed that Ford has FINALLY caught up bro. You're bragging about them taking this long just to catch up. Ok. Nobody cares. In the next Gen it'll be the same. The Camaro will destroy the GT and then the GT will play catch up but still be not as good.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

No, the ZR1 won't depreciate like a stone. And no, the Shelby will not hold it's value for decades. The Shelby is already showing huge decreases in pricing as it is. And considering the ADMs that people paid, on average, right out the door they have already lost more money than the ZR1 will. Not to mention that Ford has nothing that will compete with the ZR1 anyway...even the C6 ZR1, lol!!

You brought up the GT in comparison to the ZR1, so either you're referring to the Mustang GT, which who the hell would compare the Mustang to a ZR1..or you're comparing it to the Ford GT..



Which is not made by Shelby.

So are you referring to the GT350, the Mustang GT or the Ford GT?

If you're gonna talk smack, get your facts straight.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

Every magazine review (which you seem to covet so much) adamantly disagrees with this statement. Same 1/4 mile performance (albeit a bit more difficult to launch), but FAR better handling, better interior, better....we'll, everything. But hey, what do they know

Wrong. The 11-14 GTs were 12.7 to about a 12.9 and then they were a 12.9 when the S550 came out due to the extra weight of the IRS. The little bump in hp in 15 was not enough to overcome the weight. Hence my statement that they took a step back...because they got slower...when the fastest S197 was a 12.7 and the fastest S550 was a 12.9. Understand?

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

You brought up the GT in comparison to the ZR1, so either you're referring to the Mustang GT, which who the hell would compare the Mustang to a ZR1..or you're comparing it to the Ford GT..



Which is not made by Shelby.

So are you referring to the GT350, the Mustang GT or the Ford GT?

If you're gonna talk smack, get your facts straight.

The one that is a POS. Or do I need to be even more specific? Ok, the one that you can't afford. Should I get even more specific? Ok, the one you don't have. More specifics? Damn. Ok, uh, the one that has been getting it's ass kicked since 2015. Well that narrows it down to 2. Ok, the one that people overpaid for. Still not enough hints? Well if you go back and read what I said about ADMs you should be able to figure it out from there.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The ZL1 actually beat the GT500 for numerous reasons. The GT500 won in performance. But it lost due to old tech, not having many options, the ZL1 was praised for the MRC, and a few other things the ZL1 had is what gave it the win. The Shelby won ONLY due to it's "feel" which they conveniently could not describe, the exhaust note which their sound guy weighed in on (as if anyone cared what he thought), and that it was "special". So the win the ZL1 took in 2012 is in no way comparable to the win the Shelby took this time.



No, the ZR1 won't depreciate like a stone. And no, the Shelby will not hold it's value for decades. The Shelby is already showing huge decreases in pricing as it is. And considering the ADMs that people paid, on average, right out the door they have already lost more money than the ZR1 will. Not to mention that Ford has nothing that will compete with the ZR1 anyway...even the C6 ZR1, lol!!



Cool story.


Well the Camaros and Challengers have already been doing that soo...


And none of us are impressed that Ford has FINALLY caught up bro. You're bragging about them taking this long just to catch up. Ok. Nobody cares. In the next Gen it'll be the same. The Camaro will destroy the GT and then the GT will play catch up but still be not as good.

I dont think anyone cares if you're impressed or not. The S550 crowd is salivating over the possibility that the Mustang could be equal to or faster than the 6th Gen...If it turns out to be faster then they will have a circle jerk as they mock you relentlessly

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

I dont think anyone cares if you're impressed or not. The S550 crowd is salivating over the possibility that the Mustang could be equal to or faster than the 6th Gen...If it turns out to be faster then they will have a circle jerk as they mock you relentlessly

LOL! Well, the fact that they're even talking about me all the way over there (again, not the first time I might add) and that I don't really care about anything over there tells you all you need to know. The fact that they're soo pissed at me that many of them are making accounts and swarming over here (not the first time either) is pathetic. And the fact that they're "salivating over the POSSIBILITY that the Mustang COULD BE equal to or faster than the 6th Gen"...haha! That says it all.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The one that is a POS. Or do I need to be even more specific? Ok, the one that you can't afford. Should I get even more specific? Ok, the one you don't have. More specifics? Damn. Ok, uh, the one that has been getting it's ass kicked since 2015. Well that narrows it down to 2. Ok, the one that people overpaid for. Still not enough hints? Well if you go back and read what I said about ADMs you should be able to figure it out from there.

My ability to afford the cars is irrelevant and a pointless ad hominem attack.

[Speedofsound]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

My ability to afford the cars is irrelevant and a pointless ad hominem attack.

Very silly indeed.