Catch Can for the LT1, Yes or BS?

Desert Drifter · 10-25-2017, 11:18 AM

What is the opinion on catch cans for the Direct Injection LT1 motor in my 2018 Camaro? Seems some like the catch can, and others think they are smoke and mirrors.

soloknight6 · 10-25-2017, 11:39 AM

Your car already has one. So if GM put one on the new camaro, and the vette didnt have one, they must do something.

Others say "Its on the wrong side" of the engine. I have a bit more faith in engineers than most. I for one will not be adding an additional aftermarket catch can until my warranty is up. There are many mods that are easy to return to stock without a trace. A catch can, I feel, is not one of them.

Ichabod · 10-25-2017, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soloknight6

There are many mods that are easy to return to stock without a trace. A catch can, I feel, is not one of them.

It would take maybe 10 minutes to remove my CC and replace the factory hose.

TRich2SS · 10-25-2017, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soloknight6

There are many mods that are easy to return to stock without a trace. A catch can, I feel, is not one of them.

That funny because you could not be more wrong. The catch can is literally by far the easiest mod to take on or off the car in the shortest amount of time without a trace of evidence that it was ever there.

soloknight6 · 10-25-2017, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ichabod

It would take maybe 10 minutes to remove my CC and replace the factory hose.

Good thing you still have your factory hose!

soloknight6 · 10-25-2017, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRich2SS

That funny because you could not be more wrong. The catch can is literally by far the easiest mod to take on or off the car in the shortest amount of time without a trace of evidence that it was ever there.

I said "I feel." My opinion.

Some are better at wrenching than others.
I still feel like the additional can wont make much of a difference. Coking will be an issue regardless of how many cans are installed. Just like the euro DI cars, a media blasting will be necessary in the higher mileage ranges. Something I plan to do anyway.

JeromeS13 · 10-25-2017, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soloknight6

Your car already has one. So if GM put one on the new camaro, and the vette didnt have one, they must do something.

Others say "Its on the wrong side" of the engine. I have a bit more faith in engineers than most. I for one will not be adding an additional aftermarket catch can until my warranty is up. There are many mods that are easy to return to stock without a trace. A catch can, I feel, is not one of them.

I'm guessing that you've yet to look inside your intake manifold? I did at 1800 miles and the inside of mine was covered in oil. Adding a catch can to the PCV side is cheap insurance, and is VERY easily removed in the event of taking it to the dealership for service.

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showpo...1&postcount=78

soloknight6 · 10-25-2017, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeromeS13

I'm guessing that you've yet to look inside your intake manifold? I did at 1800 miles and the inside of mine was covered in oil. Adding a catch can to the PCV side is cheap insurance, and is VERY easily removed in the event of taking it to the dealership for service.

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showpo...1&postcount=78

I stand corrected. Thank you Jerome for showing me pictures, never seen any actual photographs other than the residue collected by the cans. Not even from catch can suppliers. Ill have to take a look at my IM now. Since youve installed your can, whats your IM look like?

UrMaster · 10-25-2017, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soloknight6

I stand corrected. Thank you Jerome for showing me pictures, never seen any actual photographs other than the residue collected by the cans. Not even from catch can suppliers. Ill have to take a look at my IM now. Since youve installed your can, whats your IM look like?

+1 Would also like to know if cc made a significant difference.

Snowblind · 10-25-2017, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desert Drifter

What is the opinion on catch cans for the Direct Injection LT1 motor in my 2018 Camaro? Seems some like the catch can, and others think they are smoke and mirrors.

They work, it's not snake oil.

waterman · 10-25-2017, 03:36 PM

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=511643

See post # 7.
GM did a good job on the clean side. The dirty side is where you should be concerned.

Elite Engineering · 10-25-2017, 04:05 PM

Just as the Gen5 V6's, your LT1 is a GDI (Gasoline Direct Injection) engines and has no fuel spraying on the valves to keep them cool and deposit free, so all that is in the crankcase vapors (oil, water, acids, raw fuel, and abrasive particulate matter) is baking onto the intake valves backsides now where the LS engines had constant stream of fuel cleaning and cooling them. Then we need to look at what is occurring in the crankcase. As GDI engines introduce the fuel at 2,000-3,000 PSI, there is many times the raw fuel washing past the rings and removing some of the oil on the cylinder walls that lubricate the pistons as well as the carbon particles are no longer the "soft" carbon of the past. This is in a very hard crystalline makeup that is extremely abrasive, and far more of it is entering your crankcase. Add that with the water, acids, and other compounds entering as blow-by the engine oil has to deal with far more in the way of contamination and still properly protect.

As for the factory "catchcan", it is a cleanside separator and does a good job unlike those of the past. It only traps oil vapors that back flow into the intake air charge when accelerating or at WOT when o intake manifold vacuum is present to maintain the correct direction of flow. This is then returned to the crankcase via a drain/return tube underneath it. This oil is relatively clean and mostly just oil so it can be safely returned to the crankcase. But, the cleanside only accounts for app. 5% or so of the total ingestion. 95% comes from the foul, or dirty side of the PCV system, and that can NEVER be returned to the crankcase or engine failure would not be far behind so GM nor any other mass producer will ever include a device that requires the end user to empty every few thousand miles ( a catchcan cannot be ignored, it MUST be drained and the contents disposed of properly at regular intervals). So, your GDI engine has to face many wear causing and engine life shortening conditions the old Port Injections engines never did. This is the main reason GM and others have cut engine warranty periods almost in half from the 100k miles of the past LS based engines. GM lost a fortune due to premature failures of the 3.6L GDI engines, and there are thousands of V6 Gen5 Camaro's sitting with failed engines out there. The first excessive wear failures to show up on the V6 GDI engines were the timing chains and related components. Then rod bearing failures and excessive oil consumption. This is common with ALL GDI engines, not just GM's (Google search Ford Ecoboost failures, or Nissan, or BMW to see) experience this and it is the future. CAFE fuel economy standards and ever increasing emissions regulations have forced every Automaker in the World to adopt GDI and all the negatives that come with it.

You never want to run a syn blend oil, only a good full synthetic as it leaves far less coking residue vs a blend. The good full synthetics such as Amsoil, and others are now formulated to combat LSPI (low speed pre ignition) as this has been causing a very high piston failure rate and a cheap blend (many dealers are STILL using the cheap Dexos blend to save $!!) contributes to this.

So, what does a truly effective system like our E2-X series remove from the crankcase and the PCV vapors?

This is a typical drain from one of our systems (95% plus effective vs the average catchcan only 15-30% effective) after it was spun in a cenrifuge to separate the different compounds:

As you can see, oil is only a small part of what is removed. In fact, only 7%. 70% is water and acids, 23% raw fuel. These are what would have settled in and mixed with the engines oil had our system not been installed. And, the oil portion is saturated with abrasive particulate matter. All of this is overwhelming the engine oils ability to protect properly.

What will the future bring? We can only look at GDI engines up until now, and what we are seeing in these new engines when we tear down and examine them. And it is not promising. The industry has taken the stance that as 90% plus of all new vehicle buyers only keep them 3 years or less, and put less than 50k miles on them it is not their concern. They have reduced their financial exposure by dropping warranty periods from 100k to 60 and even 35k with some. Who will suffer? The consumer that keeps their vehicle for the long term, and the secondary market. We can see that by looking at the Gen5 V6 and many other makes/models. But there is a lot that can be done for the owner that wants to take the steps.

Only run a full synthetic oil, and one of the premium ones that has new formulations that combat LSPI.

Change oil at 5k miles to make sure your not running "condemned" oil.

Break in the engine correctly, and that is NOT how the owners manual instructs. Piston ring seating will make a sizable difference if done properly, and that has to be done in the first 500 miles before the hard glaze covers the crosshatch. The rings need to wear, or abrade into the shape of the cylinder wall, and the best way is to do several WOT runs in second gear from a roll to 5k RPM and allow the engine to brake back down. 4-5 times and rings are seated and then get that factory fill oil out NO LONGER than 500-1000 miles. That oil is full of casting flash, assembly debris, and iron filings and other metals from break-in, and no, GM does not break them in ahead of time. The 1500 mile instructions are only to protect them from liability and has nothing to do with whats best for the motor.

Do not run (after break-in) a w20 weight as that is only to allow that vehicle to meet CAFE fuel economy standards. These engines need a slightly heavier viscosity to properly protect with all the compounds attacking it.

And installing one of our systems that provides full time evacuation VS only idle, light cruise, and deceleration as the OE does also keeps these contaminants out of the oil and out of the combustion chamber.

Any that doubt any of this, just go back 5-6 years and read what we were sharing then in regard to the V6 GDI engines and see the impact our systems had in reducing failures and extending life and use that as an example.

Questions? Just ask. Education is a powerful tool and learning the how, what, and why of these engines will help you understand and not blindly trust some sales pitch.

Cheers!

JeromeS13 · 10-25-2017, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soloknight6

I stand corrected. Thank you Jerome for showing me pictures, never seen any actual photographs other than the residue collected by the cans. Not even from catch can suppliers. Ill have to take a look at my IM now. Since youve installed your can, whats your IM look like?

Clean with no visual residue.

wnta1ss · 10-25-2017, 05:43 PM

I definitely think adding a dirty-side catch can is a good idea for this engine. I've had my intake manifold off and after just having the factory setup (clean side only) there was oil in the intake manifold and the intake ports are dirty.

10-25-2017, 11:18 AM	#1
Desert Drifter Drives: 2018 SS 1LE Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Arizona Posts: 48	Catch Can for the LT1, Yes or BS? What is the opinion on catch cans for the Direct Injection LT1 motor in my 2018 Camaro? Seems some like the catch can, and others think they are smoke and mirrors.

10-25-2017, 11:39 AM	#2
soloknight6 SoCal HT5! SD Drives: 2016 red hot 2ss M6 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: San Diego CA, Posts: 1,929	Your car already has one. So if GM put one on the new camaro, and the vette didnt have one, they must do something. Others say "Its on the wrong side" of the engine. I have a bit more faith in engineers than most. I for one will not be adding an additional aftermarket catch can until my warranty is up. There are many mods that are easy to return to stock without a trace. A catch can, I feel, is not one of them. __________________ http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...37#post5437037 By my deeds, I honor him. V8!!!

10-25-2017, 03:36 PM	#11
waterman Drives: Grandad's C2 L89 Join Date: May 2017 Location: 2051.50N 15629.60W Posts: 1,711	http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=511643 See post # 7. GM did a good job on the clean side. The dirty side is where you should be concerned. __________________ 2018 ZL1 1LE sw/PDR

10-25-2017, 04:05 PM	#12
Elite Engineering Drives: 2010 Camaro Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Denver Posts: 1,383	Just as the Gen5 V6's, your LT1 is a GDI (Gasoline Direct Injection) engines and has no fuel spraying on the valves to keep them cool and deposit free, so all that is in the crankcase vapors (oil, water, acids, raw fuel, and abrasive particulate matter) is baking onto the intake valves backsides now where the LS engines had constant stream of fuel cleaning and cooling them. Then we need to look at what is occurring in the crankcase. As GDI engines introduce the fuel at 2,000-3,000 PSI, there is many times the raw fuel washing past the rings and removing some of the oil on the cylinder walls that lubricate the pistons as well as the carbon particles are no longer the "soft" carbon of the past. This is in a very hard crystalline makeup that is extremely abrasive, and far more of it is entering your crankcase. Add that with the water, acids, and other compounds entering as blow-by the engine oil has to deal with far more in the way of contamination and still properly protect. As for the factory "catchcan", it is a cleanside separator and does a good job unlike those of the past. It only traps oil vapors that back flow into the intake air charge when accelerating or at WOT when o intake manifold vacuum is present to maintain the correct direction of flow. This is then returned to the crankcase via a drain/return tube underneath it. This oil is relatively clean and mostly just oil so it can be safely returned to the crankcase. But, the cleanside only accounts for app. 5% or so of the total ingestion. 95% comes from the foul, or dirty side of the PCV system, and that can NEVER be returned to the crankcase or engine failure would not be far behind so GM nor any other mass producer will ever include a device that requires the end user to empty every few thousand miles ( a catchcan cannot be ignored, it MUST be drained and the contents disposed of properly at regular intervals). So, your GDI engine has to face many wear causing and engine life shortening conditions the old Port Injections engines never did. This is the main reason GM and others have cut engine warranty periods almost in half from the 100k miles of the past LS based engines. GM lost a fortune due to premature failures of the 3.6L GDI engines, and there are thousands of V6 Gen5 Camaro's sitting with failed engines out there. The first excessive wear failures to show up on the V6 GDI engines were the timing chains and related components. Then rod bearing failures and excessive oil consumption. This is common with ALL GDI engines, not just GM's (Google search Ford Ecoboost failures, or Nissan, or BMW to see) experience this and it is the future. CAFE fuel economy standards and ever increasing emissions regulations have forced every Automaker in the World to adopt GDI and all the negatives that come with it. You never want to run a syn blend oil, only a good full synthetic as it leaves far less coking residue vs a blend. The good full synthetics such as Amsoil, and others are now formulated to combat LSPI (low speed pre ignition) as this has been causing a very high piston failure rate and a cheap blend (many dealers are STILL using the cheap Dexos blend to save $!!) contributes to this. So, what does a truly effective system like our E2-X series remove from the crankcase and the PCV vapors? This is a typical drain from one of our systems (95% plus effective vs the average catchcan only 15-30% effective) after it was spun in a cenrifuge to separate the different compounds: As you can see, oil is only a small part of what is removed. In fact, only 7%. 70% is water and acids, 23% raw fuel. These are what would have settled in and mixed with the engines oil had our system not been installed. And, the oil portion is saturated with abrasive particulate matter. All of this is overwhelming the engine oils ability to protect properly. What will the future bring? We can only look at GDI engines up until now, and what we are seeing in these new engines when we tear down and examine them. And it is not promising. The industry has taken the stance that as 90% plus of all new vehicle buyers only keep them 3 years or less, and put less than 50k miles on them it is not their concern. They have reduced their financial exposure by dropping warranty periods from 100k to 60 and even 35k with some. Who will suffer? The consumer that keeps their vehicle for the long term, and the secondary market. We can see that by looking at the Gen5 V6 and many other makes/models. But there is a lot that can be done for the owner that wants to take the steps. Only run a full synthetic oil, and one of the premium ones that has new formulations that combat LSPI. Change oil at 5k miles to make sure your not running "condemned" oil. Break in the engine correctly, and that is NOT how the owners manual instructs. Piston ring seating will make a sizable difference if done properly, and that has to be done in the first 500 miles before the hard glaze covers the crosshatch. The rings need to wear, or abrade into the shape of the cylinder wall, and the best way is to do several WOT runs in second gear from a roll to 5k RPM and allow the engine to brake back down. 4-5 times and rings are seated and then get that factory fill oil out NO LONGER than 500-1000 miles. That oil is full of casting flash, assembly debris, and iron filings and other metals from break-in, and no, GM does not break them in ahead of time. The 1500 mile instructions are only to protect them from liability and has nothing to do with whats best for the motor. Do not run (after break-in) a w20 weight as that is only to allow that vehicle to meet CAFE fuel economy standards. These engines need a slightly heavier viscosity to properly protect with all the compounds attacking it. And installing one of our systems that provides full time evacuation VS only idle, light cruise, and deceleration as the OE does also keeps these contaminants out of the oil and out of the combustion chamber. Any that doubt any of this, just go back 5-6 years and read what we were sharing then in regard to the V6 GDI engines and see the impact our systems had in reducing failures and extending life and use that as an example. Questions? Just ask. Education is a powerful tool and learning the how, what, and why of these engines will help you understand and not blindly trust some sales pitch. Cheers!

10-25-2017, 05:43 PM	#14
wnta1ss Drives: 2017 Camaro 1SS Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: NH Posts: 1,713	I definitely think adding a dirty-side catch can is a good idea for this engine. I've had my intake manifold off and after just having the factory setup (clean side only) there was oil in the intake manifold and the intake ports are dirty.

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