[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

Mustang's price jump was actually rather normal considering historical evidence.

1998 GT starts at $20,150
1999 GT starts at $20,945 --- 3.95% increase

2004 GT starts at $23,675
2005 GT starts at $25,140 --- 6.19% increase

2010 GT starts at $27,995
2011 GT starts at $30,495 --- 8.93% increase

2014 GT starts at $31,210
2015 GT starts at $32,300 --- 3.49% increase

2017 GT starts at $33,195
2018 GT starts at $35,095 --- 5.72% increase

So, this increase in MSRP isn't out of line in anyway. Yes it's more expensive, but most times vehicles increase in cost after updates.

I'm not sure of Camaro's increases during MCE's and Gen changes, give me a moment and ill track down the numbers.

No, it only went up like 300 bucks. GM is not doing big upgrades mid gen so there is no reason for a huge price jump.

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

There's no reason for Camaro to have a Mustang type of price jump and I'm confident we won't see it.

Ran some numbers.

Camaro:
92 Z28 starts at - $16055
93 Z28 starts at - $16770 an increase of 4.51%

97 Z28 starts at - $20115
98 Z28 starts at - $20470 an increase of 1.76%

11 SS starts at - $31070
12 SS starts at - $32280 an increase of 3.89%

13 SS starts at - $32635
14 SS starts at - $33355 an increase of 2.21%

15 SS starts at - $33505
16 SS starts at - $36300 an increase of 8.34%

Average all the increases from MCE's and Gen changes ~4.14%
Using that to extrapolate from the '18's starting msrp of $37000 we get a potential '19 SS starting MSRP of $38531.80.

Applying the same technique to Mustang's numbers I posted before, the average of the first 4 increases was 5.64%, rather close to the actual increase of 5.72%. Adding in the last one gets us an average of 5.65%, meaning we can guess Mustang's '19 starting MSRP to possibly be $37077.87.

So about a $1500 difference.

[ChefBorOzzy]

That is some funny Ford logic you have there, crys.

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

That is some funny Ford logic you have there, crys.

It's just math, I don't know where you get "Ford logic" from simple numbers. This is how you would make such an extrapolation in an educated fashion.

You stated that you were confidant that we would not see such an increase in Camaro's MSRP upon the next MCE. Where did you get your confidence from? I use numbers and have shown how I came to my conclusions as easily and as clearly as I can. If you have something more concrete to bring to the table, I'm all for it. I enjoy data and its uses and would love to see another paradigm,on the subject.

[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

It's just math, I don't know where you get "Ford logic" from simple numbers. This is how you would make such an extrapolation in an educated fashion.

You stated that you were confidant that we would not see such an increase in Camaro's MSRP upon the next MCE. Where did you get your confidence from? I use numbers and have shown how I came to my conclusions as easily and as clearly as I can. If you have something more concrete to bring to the table, I'm all for it. I enjoy data and its uses and would love to see another paradigm,on the subject.

The fact that you include price differences of gen changes is idiotic. Not much more i can tell you there.

But I'll run through it more thoroughly when I'm at home on a computer.

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

The fact that you include price differences of gen changes is idiotic. Not much more i can tell you there.

I could do just MCE's, not that difficult, but it will drastically reduce the sample size.

[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

I could do just MCE's, not that difficult, but it will drastically reduce the sample size.

You don't add samples that have no relation just to come up with a number you want to come up with.

Just calculate price increases for an S class and tack that percentage on to the Camaro.

[crysalis_01]

I used the exact same methodology for both vehicles, not sure why you're implying bias against Camaro.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Considering a S550 GTPP is pretty much neck and neck with a S197 Boss 302...I'd say it's a very respectable car.

The SS is simply better.

Well the Boss 302 was respectable...5 years ago. The standard of performance and what was considered respectable has changed dramatically since 2012.

[BlaqWhole]

The issue with the pricing of these cars if you ask me is not that the Camaro was expensive. I don't think it ever really was. I just think the Mustang was very cheap. Mainly the base model. The fully loaded GTs were always right around the same price as the Camaros. If you were financed for $30K max and wanted a brand new V8 Muscle car, your only option was to go to a Ford dealership and try to talk down a GT. And you'd walk out of there with a base GT, That was the only way you were getting into a brand new V8. But, it was still just a base model GT, lol!! So a lot of these kids who scraped up pennies for GTs went on talking about how the Camaro was soo expensive. It wasn't expensive, it's just that they couldn't afford one. And rightly so. The Mustangs loaded up are nowhere even close to the Camaro in performance. Yet they cost the same. People don't see it that way. Get a standard GT with no options for dirt cheap and all of a sudden every other Muscle car out there is "overpriced".

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

Such a Ford thing to do.

Wow.... That's pathetic not to put coolers on a Performance car. So at best it can close the gap on a 1LE for..... one lap? Then it will be the slowest car out there.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

Wow.... That's pathetic not to put coolers on a Performance car. So at best it can close the gap on a 1LE for..... one lap? Then it will be the slowest car out there.

I couldn't believe it so I looked it up myself. On the General Automotive section there is a Motor Trend article describing the level 2 as a "holistic approach" to "counter the dynamic capabilities of the 1LE Track Pack". After the GT350 overheating debacle? What a joke.

Here is your "level 2" track car that can't be run on a track unless you modify it. Warranty? Poof...

Note: For track day use with Performance Pack Level 2, we recommend that you add aftermarket transmission and differential coolers. Your vehicle is equipped with electronic controls that, if required, reduces power and limits RPM in order to control powertrain temperatures.

http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Fo...gEnabled=False

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by hotlap

I couldn't believe it so I looked it up myself. On the General Automotive section there is a Motor Trend article describing the level 2 as a "holistic approach" to "counter the dynamic capabilities of the 1LE Track Pack". After the GT350 overheating debacle? What a joke.

Here is your "level 2" track car that can't be run on a track unless you modify it. Warranty? Poof...

This is a disappointment. No wonder they only expect to make 1500 of them. By the time you pay 6500 for the package they have the balls to tell you to add you own cooling..

[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

I used the exact same methodology for both vehicles, not sure why you're implying bias against Camaro.

Honestly, I didn't even pay attention to your Mustang numbers as I don't care. I see the increase they have going from 2017 to 2018. I also know that GM and Ford don't do refreshes the same way. If you want to look at trends, you can focus on that. Ford has also greatly increased the price of the PP package. It was originally 2,500 dollars and has crept up to 4,000 for 2018. I don't think we need to go back 25 years and bring up generation changes to come up with a percentage increase for the refresh.

As long as the MSRP from AutoTrader is correct and I didn't mess up calculations, I'm going to say the refresh might tack on 2-2.5 percent to the price of the SS/2SS as GM has stated they have gone away from making significant midcycle changes. I could be wrong though and we see a 4-5 percent increase. We shall see. The only thing that scares me a bit about my 2-2.5 projection is the fact that the increases in 2017 and 2018 have been small.