[Sol4rfl4re]

Wonder how many people raving about handling actually take any of their cars to actual tracks.

[ST1LE]

I think Ford is out for the 6th Gen cars. It is too late, they're limited by the S550 platform. Mkaing it a performer costs too much. As previously mentioned, they have only managed to match the 5th Gen HiPo cars this time around. When compared to the 6th Gen Camaro, they are a whole generation behind. They could certainly offer a GT500 that is essentially a GT350 with wider tires and a FI CPC version of the Voodoo, but it is going to be INSANELY expensive. Dollar for Dollar, Ford is immensely outmatched in this Generation. Anything they put out that can actually perform is overpriced and still plagued by terrible quality issues. As harsh as my words are, I do think it sucks. I think the pre-refresh Mustang is a gorgeous car, just mechanically inferior.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Maybe there is some special sauce in these 285s to compete with the 1LE's 305s?

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/2018-...port-4s-tires/

285 is plenty of tire. PLENTY

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

285 is plenty of tire. PLENTY

Supposedly the PP2 with have Cup 2 tires on it. Which are great don't get me wrong. But are they better at a 275 or 285 than the F1 Supercar tire at 305? We will have to see the PP1 take on the SS and the PP2 take on the 1LE to see. Unfortunately I don't think we will see the PP2 until early next year. Still looks disappointing to me.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by Sol4rfl4re

Wonder how many people raving about handling actually take any of their cars to actual tracks.

Admittedly I do not have more than a handful of track days on my SS. Wish I had one every weekend but I have other priorities that take up my time. For people in the market for a PP2 or a 1LE it would obviously be the top priority.

For people who do a few fun days at the track and a couple test and tune runs at the strip the PP1 is probably great (better even if auto equipped). But for Ford to say they have been working on an "answer" to the 1LE this PP2 has to meet some high expectations and thus far "Police" brakes and a bigger radiator with cooler wheels is not enough.

If we find out that the PP2 has the GT 350 suspension and magnaride tuning and they fixed that God-awful MT-82 then I will be more optimistic.

[Sol4rfl4re]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

Admittedly I do not have more than a handful of track days on my SS. Wish I had one every weekend but I have other priorities that take up my time. For people in the market for a PP2 or a 1LE it would obviously be the top priority.

For people who do a few fun days at the track and a couple test and tune runs at the strip the PP1 is probably great (better even if auto equipped). But for Ford to say they have been working on an "answer" to the 1LE this PP2 has to meet some high expectations and thus far "Police" brakes and a bigger radiator with cooler wheels is not enough.

If we find out that the PP2 has the GT 350 suspension and magnaride tuning and they fixed that God-awful MT-82 then I will be more optimistic.

Admittedly, if I couldve had a 1le for high 30s with 0% I would buy it over any S550. Just looks too sexy.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

Supposedly the PP2 with have Cup 2 tires on it. Which are great don't get me wrong. But are they better at a 275 or 285 than the F1 Supercar tire at 305? We will have to see the PP1 take on the SS and the PP2 take on the 1LE to see. Unfortunately I don't think we will see the PP2 until early next year. Still looks disappointing to me.

They are PS4 Sports from what the info has told us, but I could be mistaken there. The info release is a little confusing so far. I think the PS4 is the PP1 and maybe you are right its Sport Cup 2's for the PP2 maybe? Please correct m if I am wrong.

Am I mistaken, isnt the 1LE 285 front and 305 rear? Why is everyone so caught up with the rear tire size? Ford has announced the new trans and tires on the PP1 make the GT capable of sub 4 second 0-60. Clearly the rear tires have enough grip, so I dont think the 305 v 285 will make any real difference.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

Admittedly I do not have more than a handful of track days on my SS. Wish I had one every weekend but I have other priorities that take up my time. For people in the market for a PP2 or a 1LE it would obviously be the top priority.

For people who do a few fun days at the track and a couple test and tune runs at the strip the PP1 is probably great (better even if auto equipped). But for Ford to say they have been working on an "answer" to the 1LE this PP2 has to meet some high expectations and thus far "Police" brakes and a bigger radiator with cooler wheels is not enough.

If we find out that the PP2 has the GT 350 suspension and magnaride tuning and they fixed that God-awful MT-82 then I will be more optimistic.

I think the PP2 will come within spitting distance of the 1LE/GT350, but not quite match it. It will have magride, and will have different tuning than the standard mag ride but not sure how close to GT350 tuning yet. Has more power, and will have much better grip. I have been told they have replaced the clutch on the MT-82, twin disc or something like that. I think the performance will be acceptable when NOT considering what Ford is charging for it. 1LE will still be faster and likely cheaper, so I still think they will fall shot when compared ot the Camaro.

While all this is true, its not like Ford is failing with the Mustang. Its #2 in performance in the segment, which is right where they usually are. They have been selling so many Mustangs, its every 3rd car I see. While us hardcore performance guys aren't that impressed, they must doing something right because tons of people seem to be happy.

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

It is also more expensive. 301a is required for PP2 and that is 2k. So 8500 vs the 1LE at 6500. And the 1LE has better wheels and tires, auxillary coolers, e-diff, etc.... We need the Mustang guys to come and tell us how this package will be competitive because I am not seeing it.

I agree. You have to have either the 301a or 401a to order the PP2. That makes no sense to me. Why do you need a 9 speaker stereo, ambient lighting, dual climate control, XM radio, etc (301a package) just so you can get the more aggressive PP2, yet you can't get the faster 10 speed auto? Again, OUCH!

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Some complain that the halo Corvette is holding the Camaro back. Imagine how bad it sucks to have the non-R GT350 as your halo. Ow, ouch, owie...

Mustang gets its own special engine they said... Mustang gets its own special chassis they said. Camaro only gets what Corvette and Cadillac have they said...

Originally Posted by hotlap

Amen. Corvette and Cadillac are excellent and Camaro benefits from being able to share content from these higher end vehicles. I shake my head when I read Camaro is being held back by them. That is one damn good parts bin!

The Corvette might always be a step ahead...but it is also more expensive. And it beats cars that are way more expensive than it is. The Camaro is the best all around performer in it's price range. And now we're starting to see Camaros that can put some work up against the Vette.

Originally Posted by Sol4rfl4re

Wonder how many people raving about handling actually take any of their cars to actual tracks.

I go to the drag strip. I don't care to go to a road course track (or whatever it's called). But that doesn't mean I don't want or need something that can corner. I do lots of spirited driving. And having a car that corners well these days makes a world of a difference. Plus when your competitor is offering a car that can beat yours in a straight line, outcorner you, has more options, and is cheaper, it kinda says something.

Originally Posted by ST1LE

I think Ford is out for the 6th Gen cars. It is too late, they're limited by the S550 platform. Mkaing it a performer costs too much. As previously mentioned, they have only managed to match the 5th Gen HiPo cars this time around. When compared to the 6th Gen Camaro, they are a whole generation behind. They could certainly offer a GT500 that is essentially a GT350 with wider tires and a FI CPC version of the Voodoo, but it is going to be INSANELY expensive. Dollar for Dollar, Ford is immensely outmatched in this Generation. Anything they put out that can actually perform is overpriced and still plagued by terrible quality issues. As harsh as my words are, I do think it sucks. I think the pre-refresh Mustang is a gorgeous car, just mechanically inferior.

Agreed. I don't think the GT has ever been able to keep up with any of the V8 Camaros since 1993.

Originally Posted by Chadicus

But for Ford to say they have been working on an "answer" to the 1LE this PP2 has to meet some high expectations and thus far "Police" brakes and a bigger radiator with cooler wheels is not enough.

Don't forget the special rear spoiler...

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

They are PS4 Sports from what the info has told us, but I could be mistaken there. The info release is a little confusing so far. I think the PS4 is the PP1 and maybe you are right its Sport Cup 2's for the PP2 maybe? Please correct m if I am wrong.

Am I mistaken, isnt the 1LE 285 front and 305 rear? Why is everyone so caught up with the rear tire size? Ford has announced the new trans and tires on the PP1 make the GT capable of sub 4 second 0-60. Clearly the rear tires have enough grip, so I dont think the 305 v 285 will make any real difference.

285 front and 305 rear I believe yes. The 275 run flats on the A8 SS will also do a sub 4 sec 0-60. The GT will have much better traction than those crap P-Zero tires they currently have yes.

I am just not seeing a whole lot of difference between PP1 and PP2. Yes different wheels/tires and different suspension tuning I am sure. But you can put 285 Cup 2 tires on the PP1 and get the 10 speed auto. We really need more details. Especially since this package is really 8500.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Sol4rfl4re

Wonder how many people raving about handling actually take any of their cars to actual tracks.

I think the % is the same as GT350 owners. Not much.

The difference is 1LE owners didn't pay $60K+ for their garage queen.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

285 front and 305 rear I believe yes. The 275 run flats on the A8 SS will also do a sub 4 sec 0-60. The GT will have much better traction than those crap P-Zero tires they currently have yes.

I am just not seeing a whole lot of difference between PP1 and PP2. Yes different wheels/tires and different suspension tuning I am sure. But you can put 285 Cup 2 tires on the PP1 and get the 10 speed auto. We really need more details. Especially since this package is really 8500.

Spot on man! The PP1 is the way to go. There has to be something we are missing. $8,500 for the PP2 seems insane based on what we know about it.

[drew peacock]

look the s550 platform is crap..just forget it and buy a camaro...they look shite aswell.