[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Wider wheels, more serious tire and I would assume that the magneride is tuned a bit more aggressive than getting it as an option on a PP1 car. I guess we will still wait and see

I agree with you 100%. I just don't think a 285 is serious enough to compete with the 1LE wearing 305s. (if they are aiming at that and not just the SS). Thus far all we know is they have matched the price of the 1LE package and they don't seem to have come close to the performance of it yet. Larger radiator, 6-piston Police brakes (I assume Brembo), Recaros, magnaride and a different wheel with 285's on them don't really say a whole lot on paper. I am sure there will be more details in the coming days but...

I am skeptical. VERY skeptical.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

I agree with you 100%. I just don't think a 285 is serious enough to compete with the 1LE wearing 305s. (if they are aiming at that and not just the SS). Thus far all we know is they have matched the price of the 1LE package and they don't seem to have come close to the performance of it yet. Larger radiator, 6-piston Police brakes (I assume Brembo), Recaros, magnaride and a different wheel with 285's on them don't really say a whole lot on paper. I am sure there will be more details in the coming days but...

I am skeptical. VERY skeptical.

Yeah the brakes are Brembo ( i guess for some reason heavy duty brakes are coded as police for some reason) I understand being skeptical. Like I said, I still don't expect it to beat the 1LE, but at least make it more respectable.

[whiteboyblues2001]

This PP2 looks like pretty weak sauce so far compared to what many were expecting. But, questions were raised about how they could create a GT PP2 that could compete with the SS 1LE without bumping up too close to the non-R GT350. Some felt that: A) the PP2 would compete and just say that the non-R GT350 is still worth it because of the engine is "special". Others said B) they would go a notch above the PP1, but not let the GT PP2 get too close to the non-R GT350. Looks like Ford is going with Option B. Ouch.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

This PP2 looks like pretty weak sauce so far compared to what many were expecting. But, questions were raised about how they could create a GT PP2 that could compete with the SS 1LE without bumping up too close to the non-R GT350. Some felt that: A) the PP2 would compete and just say that the non-R GT350 is still worth it because of the engine is "special". Others said B) they would go a notch above the PP1, but not let the GT PP2 get too close to the non-R GT350. Looks like Ford is going with Option B. Ouch.

It is also more expensive. 301a is required for PP2 and that is 2k. So 8500 vs the 1LE at 6500. And the 1LE has better wheels and tires, auxillary coolers, e-diff, etc.... We need the Mustang guys to come and tell us how this package will be competitive because I am not seeing it.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

It is also more expensive. 301a is required for PP2 and that is 2k. So 8500 vs the 1LE at 6500. And the 1LE has better wheels and tires, auxillary coolers, e-diff, etc.... We need the Mustang guys to come and tell us how this package will be competitive because I am not seeing it.

NO!! HELL NO!! Please don't invite them over here. We already have 2 of them and that is more than too much.

[BlaqWhole]

But seriously, about the PP2, I don't think it's gonna be much compared to the SS 1LE. It might be on par with the standard SS. But I'm thinking Ford is not gonna elbow in on GT350 R/non-R territory. At least not any time soon. Like I said before, people paid lots of money including dealership markups to get into a GT350. Even more for a GT350R. Ford would be foolish to snub them after 2 years and offer up a GT that can rival the R. That would be a bad move and a slap in the face. Plus looking back, the standard GT has never really been much of a killer performance car. With Ford it is always the higher up more expensive editions that actually have good handling. Like the Cobra R, BOSS, GT500, GT350, Termi Cobra...each of those cars in their time period were really good while the GT was simply lame. You always had to go to the aftermarket to get the GT to perform up to the higher model specs. I see it being no different this time around. The GT even in PP and PP2 form will be ok at best. It will hang with the 2SS maybe. But it won't touch the SS 1LE. Unless and only unless the PP2 is taking the place of the Boss or the GT350 which I doubt. I think Ford is still gonna be playing catch-up for a while.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

But seriously, about the PP2, I don't think it's gonna be much compared to the SS 1LE. It might be on par with the standard SS. But I'm thinking Ford is not gonna elbow in on GT350 R/non-R territory. At least not any time soon. Like I said before, people paid lots of money including dealership markups to get into a GT350. Even more for a GT350R. Ford would be foolish to snub them after 2 years and offer up a GT that can rival the R. That would be a bad move and a slap in the face. Plus looking back, the standard GT has never really been much of a killer performance car. With Ford it is always the higher up more expensive editions that actually have good handling. Like the Cobra R, BOSS, GT500, GT350, Termi Cobra...each of those cars in their time period were really good while the GT was simply lame. You always had to go to the aftermarket to get the GT to perform up to the higher model specs. I see it being no different this time around. The GT even in PP and PP2 form will be ok at best. It will hang with the 2SS maybe. But it won't touch the SS 1LE. Unless and only unless the PP2 is taking the place of the Boss or the GT350 which I doubt. I think Ford is still gonna be playing catch-up for a while.

I suspect that you are right. Which is a shame because in my mind the GT 350R should be competing with the ZL1 1LE.... Not competing with a FBO 1LE

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

NO!! HELL NO!! Please don't invite them over here. We already have 2 of them and that is more than too much.

Lol. I'd buy those guys a beer. I like arguing with them until it gets stupid. But some of those guys on that forum... man they are pissed at the moment

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

I suspect that you are right. Which is a shame because in my mind the GT 350R should be competing with the ZL1 1LE.... Not competing with a FBO 1LE

I think the problem is that this time around Ford was fighting backwards. They went after the 5th Gen ZL1 and 5th Gen Z28 with the S550 Shelby. But they weren't thinking that the 6th Gen would be out 1 year later. So the Shelby did out-perform the 5th Gen Zs. But Chevy swung for the fences with the 6th Gen SS 1LE and the ZL1 and Ford wasn't ready for that. So they're stuck with cars that are on par with the previous Generation Camaros and can't really compete with the new stuff. Chevy thought ahead with the platform they have now. I'm not seeing how Ford can make a rival to the ZL1 and come in at the same cost and have similar options. At least not in the S550 body and not this late in the game. But I'm still waiting to see if they come out with a GT500 because that would be their only saving grace at this point.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

This PP2 looks like pretty weak sauce so far compared to what many were expecting. But, questions were raised about how they could create a GT PP2 that could compete with the SS 1LE without bumping up too close to the non-R GT350. Some felt that: A) the PP2 would compete and just say that the non-R GT350 is still worth it because of the engine is "special". Others said B) they would go a notch above the PP1, but not let the GT PP2 get too close to the non-R GT350. Looks like Ford is going with Option B. Ouch.

Some complain that the halo Corvette is holding the Camaro back. Imagine how bad it sucks to have the non-R GT350 as your halo. Ow, ouch, owie...

Mustang gets its own special engine they said... Mustang gets its own special chassis they said. Camaro only gets what Corvette and Cadillac have they said...

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Some complain that the halo Corvette is holding the Camaro back. Imagine how bad it sucks to have the non-R GT350 as your halo. Ow, ouch, owie...

Mustang gets its own special engine they said... Mustang gets its own special chassis they said. Camaro only gets what Corvette and Cadillac have they said...

The Halo Corvette and Cadillac are really really good. I would be happy to own either lol. Blaq is right though. The GT 500 has to outperform the ZL1 in some way or Mustang guys might as well wait for the S650.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

The Halo Corvette and Cadillac are really really good. I would be happy to own either lol. Blaq is right though. The GT 500 has to outperform the ZL1 in some way or Mustang guys might as well wait for the S650.

Amen. Corvette and Cadillac are excellent and Camaro benefits from being able to share content from these higher end vehicles. I shake my head when I read Camaro is being held back by them. That is one damn good parts bin!

I assume Ford can build a GT500 that can beat the ZL1/Hellcat in a straight line. After the lack luster performance of the S550 this far, Ford needs to demonstrate they can control that kind of power on the track and the ZL1-1LE set the bar pretty high.

[newmoon]

Maybe there is some special sauce in these 285s to compete with the 1LE's 305s?

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/2018-...port-4s-tires/

[ChefBorOzzy]

Wondered if some were delivered or article is wrong on year.

https://patch.com/illinois/joliet/ne...n-pilcher-park