[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Sol4rfl4re

For those who are here for info...Ford website has weight for 2018 GT hardtop at 3705 (man) 3733 (auto). about the same as the 2017

Thank you!

Facts > Opinions

[Sol4rfl4re]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Thank you!

Facts > Opinions

Very disappointed, I didn't expect them to match the camaros weight but at least move in that direction and then get to the camaros weight when the next gen (S650) comes out.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Sol4rfl4re

Very disappointed, I didn't expect them to match the camaros weight but at least move in that direction and then get to the camaros weight when the next gen (S650) comes out.

I would not be upset if I were you, reducing weight on an existing model is not easy. The price is maxed out at this point I think, I doubt Ford could have managed an economic means of reducing weight. If they get the PP2 right, that coupled with the power bump really could do wonders.

It may not bring it RIGHT in line with the Camaro, but I think when one compares 2017 to 2018 Mustang, the performance improvement will be significant, especially considering this is just a refresh.

Is there zero chance of an updated manual transmission? Or is there any reason to believe we could see that on the PP2? I dont recall, but would love to see the MT82 go away.

[Sol4rfl4re]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

I would not be upset if I were you, reducing weight on an existing model is not easy. The price is maxed out at this point I think, I doubt Ford could have managed an economic means of reducing weight. If they get the PP2 right, that coupled with the power bump really could do wonders.

It may not bring it RIGHT in line with the Camaro, but I think when one compares 2017 to 2018 Mustang, the performance improvement will be significant, especially considering this is just a refresh.

Is there zero chance of an updated manual transmission? Or is there any reason to believe we could see that on the PP2? I dont recall, but would love to see the MT82 go away.

Yea, they would need to incorporate some of the "lightweight" aluminum technology from the F150, but it wouldn't be anything major unless they made it a smaller body, like the camaro. The MT82 is still there but it has been tweaked some more to allow for allow for the new higher redline (around 7500), its also getting a twin disk clutch which is like 80-90% of the problem of the MT82. The rest of the issue is the sloppy remote shifter and unexperienced racers.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Sol4rfl4re

Yea, they would need to incorporate some of the "lightweight" aluminum technology from the F150, but it wouldn't be anything major unless they made it a smaller body, like the camaro. The MT82 is still there but it has been tweaked some more to allow for allow for the new higher redline (around 7500), its also getting a twin disk clutch which is like 80-90% of the problem of the MT82. The rest of the issue is the sloppy remote shifter and unexperienced racers.

That is good news! Thanks for the info. Seems the new shifter will still be required but should, as you said, knock out the remaining issues. Time will tell, but at least they did something.

[RagingHawk]

Originally Posted by Camaro Maybe

Before the updates, the advantages the Camaro had over Mustang were:

• Performance exhaust
• Magnaride
• More power and faster
• Better handling and braking

That made the Camaro a no-brainer. Now 3 of those 4 advantages have been nullified....so for me and I would guess plenty of others, the Mustang goes from no way would I get it to maybe I will.

It's honestly about preference, unless you care about value/performance, then that would go to the Camaro. The performance exhaust on the new GT sounds like a dumbed down GT350, the Camaro has a different deeper tone. MRC is not needed, and it won't fix much. Like others said it is overrated. The Camaro chassis is better, as is the suspension and it's tuning.

It's not a small difference, look at the previous GT performance pack. It would wobble while going over imperfect surfaces, does not handle anywhere near as good as the Camaro. The Camaro SS(non-1LE) is a stiff ride out of the box, it rides like a GT350. If I'm paying 38K at least I want a proper performance suspension for a performance car. Even Charger scat packs have a stiffer and more stable ride than the Mustang.

The stock GT does not brake better than the stock SS. Most magazines put the GT PP up against the stock SS which lacks 6 piston calipers.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by RagingHawk

It's honestly about preference, unless you care about value/performance, then that would go to the Camaro. The performance exhaust on the new GT sounds like a dumbed down GT350, the Camaro has a different deeper tone. MRC is not needed, and it won't fix much. Like others said it is overrated. The Camaro chassis is better, as is the suspension and it's tuning.

It's not a small difference, look at the previous GT performance pack. It would wobble while going over imperfect surfaces, does not handle anywhere near as good as the Camaro. The Camaro SS(non-1LE) is a stiff ride out of the box, it rides like a GT350. If I'm paying 38K at least I want a proper performance suspension for a performance car. Even Charger scat packs have a stiffer and more stable ride than the Mustang.

The stock GT does not brake better than the stock SS. Most magazines put the GT PP up against the stock SS which lacks 6 piston calipers.

Exactly. The SS feels planted at higher speeds while the GT feels like it is about to lose control. I can say there were plenty of times I felt mine start to get wobbly at higher speeds. Plus the PP, the ones I drove, did nothing but spin the tires at low RPMs. And honestly, the suspension did not feel any different over the non-PP. I drove both and nothing seemed different. But getting into a 1SS felt worlds apart. If some of the new changes addresses that then it should be a bit better but by how much I'm not sure. And I think on the GT the exhaust valves on the GT do nothing but drive up the cost. It isn't a necessary thing and they could have skipped that.

And Ford would have to address the clutch in the M6. One thing I hated was that you have virtually no clutch feel when it engages and disengages. It took me weeks to get it done and that was only because I had to train a certain shifting pattern/technique into my head. But even after that I still couldn't launch mine for shit at the track. 6 runs and not one of them was respectable. The SS was effortless. To me Ford would have to make vast improvements over the S550. Which is a shame because I thought the S550 would be leaps and bounds over the S197 and it wasn't. The interior was better but that was about it. Camaro did a great job because the 5th Gen was excellent and then the 6th Gen blew it away. Even the against the 5th Gen ZL1. I swear I tell people to get the 6th Gen SS over a 5th Gen ZL1.

[drew peacock]

over about 90mph the pp gt 2016 i had felt like it was going to kill me..how anyone can drive high speed in one of those things amazes me.
plus that damn hood flutter added to high speed weaving makes the s550 a dangerous car to try and go fast in.
my hyundai is rock solid above 90 mph..in fact my hyundai drives about 1 million times better than that utter pos mustang

[FastCarFanBoy]

https://youtu.be/XHalSAlxE1o

https://youtu.be/r0If8iKnaZM

Failed suicide attempts in an s550.

is that guy texting while riding in that death trap?

[BlaqWhole]

If you're a good driver and are on a road course and drive the car within it's limits and have good tires then any car can be "safe". But there are many many other videos of these cars crashing horribly. And that is the main problem. And the difference between the SS and the GT. My SS always felt controlled at higher speeds, around corners, etc. My GT would get nowhere near the speeds I could get in my SS and it would start to feel unsafe. To me it is because Ford builds their cars for the aftermarket to produce quality stuff for. It is completely safe and reliable when cruising around or even when doing some spirited driving. But you'll reach it's limit much faster than you will in a SS.

[BlaqWhole]

I think it would be good for Ford to also focus on the actual feel of the Mustang. I've been in the EB, the V6, the GT, and they all had the same feel. If it weren't for the exhaust and the acceleration you would be hard pressed to know which one you were actually in. My GT to me felt like a $20K car. Compared to the 5th Gen Camaros just for the heck of it, I been in the SS and the V6 Camaros and the SS always felt tighter and hugged the road much more. The seats in my GT always felt like it had a thin layer of material and my SS seats felt almost heavy duty by comparison. Both were leather seats BTW. To me it seems this price hike will not be worth it if the car still feels like it is cheaply made. I can understand the base GT. But once you get into the more costly options and start getting into the mid $40K range the car needs a better and higher quality interior to match.

[Sol4rfl4re]

Mustang has always been built as a blank canvas for people to personalize it. It's been fairly successful at selling itself. Now as a worldwide platform trying to compete with BMWs they will being to narrow that down to a certain identity. Might take a while because they don't want to upset the original American base.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Sol4rfl4re

Mustang has always been built as a blank canvas for people to personalize it. It's been fairly successful at selling itself. Now as a worldwide platform trying to compete with BMWs they will being to narrow that down to a certain identity. Might take a while because they don't want to upset the original American base.

It is successful at selling because you can get them cheap. But lately we've been seeing that the Camaro and Challenger sales have started to creep up. These days it is anyone's game.

And it is fine if they're a "blank canvas". Shit, that is what we've been saying all this time. That bone stock they aren't much and need to be modded to keep up. That is fine if you're getting a base model GT with little to no options and figure you'll just build it and blow thru your warranty. You can find them at high $20Ks all day. But when you start adding in options, then you have a GT that is costing what the competitors cost and you're not getting anywhere near the same performance. And then what happens? Are you gonna be as ready to blow a warranty on a $45K car as you will a $28K car? For the record, lots of folks who option out the GT and SS and compare the price would choose the SS. Because you're getting a better performing car in the SS for the same money. Ford has to get up to the SS levels on everything if they're gonna be charging more than a SS. And I mean everything. Handling, quarter mile, quality, everything.

[BlaqWhole]

If MT or any of the other mags do a comparison soon then I hope they keep their subjective comments out of it. I don't care if their sound guy who nobody knows or cares about thinks a GT sounds better. I would like to see them base their testing off of the performance aspects. If they wanna add in that they feel the Camaro was this or that the GT was that then they can leave it as a footnote. But these are Muscle cars should be tested on performance.