[JoeP@TeamBeckyD]

Originally Posted by camaro5

2017 Camaro Production

More than 116,000 vvvvvvv 1G1FB1RS8H0216052

http://www.bomninchevroletwestkendal...dow_sticker%27

The Camaro is not sequential in the VIN.

The Lansing plant builds other models - IE: Cadillac.


Becky

[DenverTaco07]

I know i'm a broken record here - but these numbers are fairly...useless.

What % is I4 and V6 fleet sales?

If Mustang is selling 2000 I4 and V6 to fleet and Camaro is selling 500, is that something we should know in the "game" of sales numbers?

IDK...I think these are dumb numbers...really dumb, fake news!

I mean, it could be that Mustang is not selling to fleet either, but with these dumb fake news numbers...we just don't know.

[90503]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

I know i'm a broken record here - but these numbers are fairly...useless.

What % is I4 and V6 fleet sales?

If Mustang is selling 2000 I4 and V6 to fleet and Camaro is selling 500, is that something we should know in the "game" of sales numbers?

IDK...I think these are dumb numbers...really dumb, fake news!

I mean, it could be that Mustang is not selling to fleet either, but with these dumb fake news numbers...we just don't know.

I wouldn't call them fake....They lack in a lot of details, for sure. They are the total numbers the manufacturers announce every month, and that hasn't changed for years or decades as their total for each...retail, or fleet, all options, trim levels and models...they are added together for the total...

If I recall, it was several years before the 5thGen had any kind of breakdowns of trim levels and engines, etc....It's just not something the manufacturers think is relevant to announce month to month....the sales numbers and breakdowns for every possible option and combination would be pretty massive undertaking, but I think we will hear some numbers for each eventually, just not month to month like has been going on for many years...

Anyway, it's the grand total for each, however you want to spin it....but I wouldn't call it fake...lol..

[Marty McFlew]

Originally Posted by 79Zee28

Camaro's will never sell what they did in the 60's and 70's. However, there is no reason why they cant lead their respected category. Many make their decision once they sit in that car. "The interior seals the deal". The Camaro lacks in ergonomics and outward visibility. By no means do they need to re-create the pacer, but they can surely raise that roof a little. There are also numerous improvements they can make to the interior. I hope the next generation addresses these issues.

Anyone who complains about visibility should be driving a Toyota similar to the Nissan or Honda they are stepping out of now. Visibility is a non issue if you are a seasoned driver.

[90503]

I don't recall the desire for fleet/retail numbers being that much of an issue with the 5thGen vs Mustang and Challenger...

GM and Chevy opened a can of worms when they made a big deal out of cutting back, or stopping sales to fleet and bragging about a larger Average Transaction Price....The speculation and guessing has been non-stop ever since....and something no-one yet has been privy to or knows all the answers, or if it even means anything relevant to anyone here...lol..

[Marty McFlew]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

I know i'm a broken record here - but these numbers are fairly...useless.

What % is I4 and V6 fleet sales?

If Mustang is selling 2000 I4 and V6 to fleet and Camaro is selling 500, is that something we should know in the "game" of sales numbers?

IDK...I think these are dumb numbers...really dumb, fake news!

I mean, it could be that Mustang is not selling to fleet either, but with these dumb fake news numbers...we just don't know.

Yeh...well there is a lot of FAKE NEWS going around, that's for sure.

[Michigan1LTRS]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

I know i'm a broken record here - but these numbers are fairly...useless.

What % is I4 and V6 fleet sales?

If Mustang is selling 2000 I4 and V6 to fleet and Camaro is selling 500, is that something we should know in the "game" of sales numbers?

IDK...I think these are dumb numbers...really dumb, fake news!

I mean, it could be that Mustang is not selling to fleet either, but with these dumb fake news numbers...we just don't know.

So, for all that is wrong with the Camaro as some say, retail sales is won by Camaro.

Snapshot of retail sales and ATP's year to date. This info was end of June.

2017 Retail ATP's YTD (JDPin)
Camaro: $40,645
Challenger: $37,298
Mustang: $36,298

2017 Retail Sales YTD
Camaro: 33,739
Mustang: 30,343
Challenger: 23,702

While Mustang is leading total sales in 2017, Camaro is leading retail sales and doing so at a higher price point.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by 90503

I don't recall the desire for fleet/retail numbers being that much of an issue with the 5thGen vs Mustang and Challenger...

GM and Chevy opened a can of worms when they made a big deal out of cutting back, or stopping sales to fleet and bragging about a larger Average Transaction Price....The speculation and guessing has been non-stop ever since....and something no-one yet has been privy to or knows all the answers, or if it even means anything relevant to anyone here...lol..

We know GM is focusing on retail sales the past few years and we know the Camaro is leading the three in that category.

I doubt they are happy with the CTS/ATS/Camaro volume but we do know the Cadillac, Alpha2, "CT5/4/3" models are coming with gen7 Camaro expected. GM isn't going to go for fleet sales to pump up volume. They are taking another swing and getting Alpha retail volume with new product.

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...2021-a-271074/

[90503]

Originally Posted by Michigan1LTRS

So, for all that is wrong with the Camaro as some say, retail sales is won by Camaro.

Snapshot of retail sales and ATP's year to date. This info was end of June.

2017 Retail ATP's YTD (JDPin)
Camaro: $40,645
Challenger: $37,298
Mustang: $36,298

2017 Retail Sales YTD
Camaro: 33,739
Mustang: 30,343
Challenger: 23,702

While Mustang is leading total sales in 2017, Camaro is leading retail sales and doing so at a higher price point.

This is all good info and certainly adds to the discussion....However it shows Year To Date and unfortunately isn't parallel with the month to month sales numbers...and I believe 2017 is the only year we have seen this fleet to retail comparison and ATP....
...ATP....perhaps a double edged sword...good for the corporation, but I don't see it as something to be proud of as a Camaro buyer....lol...

Originally Posted by hotlap

We know GM is focusing on retail sales the past few years and we know the Camaro is leading the three in that category.

I doubt they are happy with the CTS/ATS/Camaro volume but we do know the Cadillac, Alpha2, "CT5/4/3" models are coming with gen7 Camaro expected. GM isn't going to go for fleet sales to pump up volume. They are taking another swing and getting Alpha retail volume with new product.

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...2021-a-271074/

Certainly they could sell more Camaros and have the production capacity to do so....whether or not the Camaro can stand alone on the Alpha platform remains to be seen....The shared assembly line is definitely a plus.

[Michigan1LTRS]

Originally Posted by 90503

This is all good info and certainly adds to the discussion....However it shows Year To Date and unfortunately isn't parallel with the month to month sales numbers...and I believe 2017 is the only year we have seen this fleet to retail comparison and ATP....
...ATP....perhaps a double edged sword...good for the corporation, but I don't see it as something to be proud of as a Camaro buyer....lol...

Not sure anyone is proud of the sales. Not sure where you got that. My whole point of showing this for the umpteenth time in this thread is all this talk of why the Mustang outsells Camaro. IE visibility, lower price etc. when in fact Camaro beats Mustang in retail sales where all that even matters. Are sales good for both cars? Absolutely not. Does Camaro outsell the Mustang to the retail consumer? You bet your butt it does.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Michigan1LTRS

Not sure anyone is proud of the sales. Not sure where you got that. My whole point of showing this for the umpteenth time in this thread is all this talk of why the Mustang outsells Camaro. IE visibility, lower price etc. when in fact Camaro beats Mustang in retail sales where all that even matters. Are sales good for both cars? Absolutely not. Does Camaro outsell the Mustang to the retail consumer? You bet your butt it does.

Not arguing with you, just saying the ATP for me is a non-issue and not something that makes the Camaro more desirable or popular than the others.

Maybe it's those fleet sales of the others that keeps their ATP lower....I don't know...More Camaro fleet sales would lower the consumer's price, and they would sell even more?...who knows

I agree retail sales tell more of the true picture in the popularity contest between the three...(and I think that's basically all these monthly sales threads "prove")...Even the fleet/rental cars end up on the road with a single owner at some point in time...They don't shred them up.

It's just too bad we can't go back all the ten years of the sales threads...lol....

All good...just rambling...lol...

[germanicus]

ATP is useless without knowing overhead, R&D costs.

Without knowing what the margins are for fleet sales, its all useless.

We know definitively that more Mustangs are sold than Camaros. Full Stop.
We know Camaros have several months of inventory sitting on lots. Full Stop.
We know that they have had to cut shifts at the factory.

If you want to say thats all part of the plan, maybe so, but its a horrible plan.
It could either be the associated margins are similar between the cars or extremely different.

It is ludicrous to ignore fleet sales.
If you think that fleet sales occur due to random selection out of a hat and do not reflect market pressure or consumer appeal, you are fooling yourself. Rental companies certainly weigh the popularity/appeal of a given model. Otherwise all rental fleets would be made up of hundreds of Prius.

[UK Basketball Rocks]

Originally Posted by germanicus

ATP is useless without knowing overhead, R&D costs.

Without knowing what the margins are for fleet sales, its all useless.

We know definitively that more Mustangs are sold than Camaros. Full Stop.
We know Camaros have several months of inventory sitting on lots. Full Stop.
We know that they have had to cut shifts at the factory.

If you want to say thats all part of the plan, maybe so, but its a horrible plan.
It could either be the associated margins are similar between the cars or extremely different.

It is ludicrous to ignore fleet sales.
If you think that fleet sales occur due to random selection out of a hat and do not reflect market pressure or consumer appeal, you are fooling yourself. Rental companies certainly weigh the popularity/appeal of a given model. Otherwise all rental fleets would be made up of hundreds of Prius.

Even though I own a 2017 SS I think Camaro's are overpriced. And I think that does hurt their sales and the Mustang 5.0 is cheaper to buy into even if everyone thinks it isnt as good a muscle car as the Camaro.

I dont really care who outsells who, I am just glad that the Camaro, Mustang and Challenger are still around to be purchased.

Thats just my opinion

[tman0327]

Originally Posted by germanicus

ATP is useless without knowing overhead, R&D costs.

Without knowing what the margins are for fleet sales, its all useless.

We know definitively that more Mustangs are sold than Camaros. Full Stop.
We know Camaros have several months of inventory sitting on lots. Full Stop.
We know that they have had to cut shifts at the factory.


If you want to say thats all part of the plan, maybe so, but its a horrible plan.
It could either be the associated margins are similar between the cars or extremely different.

It is ludicrous to ignore fleet sales.
If you think that fleet sales occur due to random selection out of a hat and do not reflect market pressure or consumer appeal, you are fooling yourself. Rental companies certainly weigh the popularity/appeal of a given model. Otherwise all rental fleets would be made up of hundreds of Prius.

I agree with you one million percent!