[Daves1SS]

I wanted to start a thread regarding my addition of the Killer Chiller to my 2016 Camaro SS with the Edelbrock E-force supercharger. For quite some time, while I was really enjoying my car with the E-force SC, I would notice that anytime the weather was over about 75 degrees out, the car seemed to drop off in performance. The hotter it was outside, the more the car felt just lackluster. This car is my one and only car, and my daily driver that sees lots of traffic each and every day.

On hot 90+ degree days especially in heavy traffic, the car hardly felt supercharged because the IAT’s were so high and the car would dial back so much timing. Edelbrock put the IAT sensor in the hottest location they could find, so that it would figure IAT’s on the worst-case scenario, and protect them since they’re providing a powertrain warranty with their tune. It’s smart on their part, but it also is frustrating to owners that want full power from their cars on the hotter days. I then started reading up on this killer chiller, and got brave enough to give it a try despite not being able to get the contact information of anyone that had done one before on a 2016-2017 Camaro SS. So, I did the install myself, and wrote an instruction manual that is on Joe Kincaid’s website.

Instructions here:
http://killerchiller.com/p/chevy-camaro-install

I ran it just as the instructions stated without doing the bypass, and used industrial 12a refrigerant as opposed to the r134a. My results weren’t bad at all. I dropped my IAT’s down significantly (20-25 degree drop on average), and was happy with the results. I wasn’t just absolutely blown away by the results, but it made a noticeable improvement in the car’s performance and pep during the summer. The bad part was that at idle, the air coming out of my vents was only about 70 degrees. As soon as you got the car over 1,000 rpms, the air inside the cabin went back to ice cold. Now while this is tolerable, it’s not ideal. So I started trying to figure out what was wrong. Joe convinced me that it was because I wasn’t bypassing the Edelbrock front mount heat exchanger.

He said that the job of the heat exchanger is actually to get the fluid passing through it back to ambient temperature. So, when the fluid exiting the supercharger heading to the pump and then to the heat exchanger is actually below ambient, when it goes through the front mount heat exchanger, it actually heats it back up some before it heads through the killer chiller again, and is counterproductive. As a result, the AC system is having to cool down hotter fluid than it otherwise should be having to cool down inside the killer chiller unit itself. Couple that with the slower compressor speed at idle, and the AC was really working overtime to cool the cabin AND cool the hot fluid passing through the killer chiller itself. So instead of removing the Edelbrock heat exchanger altogether (this seemed risky, because what if your AC goes out or you want to turn your AC off in the winter?), as the instructions mentioned as an option, I elected to install KC’s 3-way bypass valve that they offer. What a great decision I made too.

Here is a how-to guide on how I installed the 3-way bypass valve:


I’ve also got a needed materials list in the details section of the video listed for anyone that needs it. So I did the 3-way bypass, and it made a WORLD of difference. The IAT’s now were even lower, and my air blows nice and cold at idle now even on 90+ degree days. And the car feels noticeably faster as well. I kid you not, the car feels as fast in 90 degree weather with the AC on as it did in 50 degree weather with no AC running with the Killer Chiller added with the 3-way bypass and bypassing the H/E. To say that I’m a happy customer that is pleased with the product and setup is an understatement. This is by far the best mod save for the supercharger kit that I’ve done on my car. This is ideal for a daily driver. I had no idea what I was missing by not doing the 3-way bypass and taking the front mount heat exchanger out of the loop. And…….whenever I want to turn off the AC when it gets cool out, or in the event of an AC failure, all I have to do is pull over, reach under the front of the car, and stick my hand up the access hole I made. Then I just rotate the 3-way lever 90 degrees and voila, the car is back to running the way it was prior by going back through the heat exchanger.

I did not try and squeeze in the “drag pack” option that Killer Chiller offers, as it might have stretched the metal hoses a bit much on the larger 5/8” AC line. It might could be done, but I didn’t attempt it just because I’m not much of a track rat anymore anyway. So if you want to drag race the car, you would want to try doing the drag pack option as well so you’re not dripping water on the track, which no track is going to tolerate. If you road race, not sure if this would be ideal or not because you have to factor in a little IAT recovery time when getting out of WOT. But the recovery time is quick if you have just the right fluid capacity. But for a daily driver? Hands down a must mod in my opinion for a roots style SC’d car like ours…..especially the Edelbrock guys. I’m in love with the car all over again. I can’t believe how happy and strong the car feels now regardless of the weather. It’s faster, and it’s healthier (no timing pulled and NO KR at all).

Here’s a little video I made showing the IAT’s on a 90 degree day with the KC and 3-way bypass:


And for reference, pre-killer chiller with the E-force system, cruising IAT’s would be about 50-55 over ambient and just sitting idling I would see anywhere from 75-90 over ambient. Huge improvement. This system might not be what everyone wants to do, but I’m extremely happy with my decision to add it to my car. Hopefully this thread will be a good reference for anyone wanting information on how to do it and what the results will be if they do it to theirs. You can do to your car what I’ve done to mine including the 3-way bypass for under a grand. Well worth it IMO. Also, Joe Kincaid (owner of killerchiller.com) is the man. He answered my calls and texts late at night, on weekends, and always has gone above and beyond to try and make sure I’m happy with his system.

[Atomic Ed]

Excellent Dave!

For those unfamiliar with the E-Force, the IAT sensor is located right above the intake valve and is hooded to "see" the intake valve temps instead of the intercooler temps. (This is Edelbrock's design approach to maintain a safety margin on IATs.) To see this kind of measured reduction, Dave's intercooler temp would have to be well below what his IAT reading is actually showing.

In other words, Dave's temp measurements shown are actually measured temps of the back side of the intake valve. His temps are probably near the same temps of an NA setup, if not lower.

[Daves1SS]

Ed, correct you are. I'm sure they're below ambient quite a bit considering you can put your hand on the center front of the SC after driving and it's so cold that it's condensating. Brrrrr!!!

[E-Ray]

I have been thinking about this mod for a long time now. Dave has gone to the extreme in his presentation and installation guide. This should be a must on every PD supercharger, in my opinion. My only concern, is the condensation build up. If it is producing moisture on the outside, it is probably producing moisture on the inside. Would this be bad for the internals of the supercharger? Great Job DAVE !!!!!!

[mtlforlife]

Would this be usable/recommended for a Magnuson SC?

[Daves1SS]

Thanks Ray! Well I can tell you, on the outside, there's never enough water that accumulates to start dripping. And once you turn the car off it starts to dry up quickly from the other heat within the engine bay. Internally I would need to try and find a cutaway of the E-force. For sure, it shouldn't come in contact with the rotors unless there's a weep hole in the fluid tubing channel casing area to rid of any moisture that drops down behind the throttle body or something. Good question though. Anyone got a cut away of the E-force? Of course I could also just email Edelbrock and ask them. That would be a sure fire way to find out.

[Daves1SS]

Originally Posted by mtlforlife

Would this be usable/recommended for a Magnuson SC?

It would benefit any PD car. Not sure if the inlet is on the bottom of the heartbeat front mount heat exchanger to be able to set up the bypass the same?
I'm sure there would be some different routing if so. I know a guy who did this on his whippled gen 6 with a full bypass. He sent me a PM on here. Can't remember his screen name right off. He still had 70 degree air at idle with the full 3 way bypass and the industrial 12a. But he may not have the right charge amount of refrigerant.

[Atomic Ed]

Originally Posted by E-Ray

I have been thinking about this mod for a long time now. Dave has gone to the extreme in his presentation and installation guide. This should be a must on every PD supercharger, in my opinion. My only concern, is the condensation build up. If it is producing moisture on the outside, it is probably producing moisture on the inside. Would this be bad for the internals of the supercharger? Great Job DAVE !!!!!!

I don't know for a fact that it won't be a problem, but I would think that there is more than enough air moving through the rotor pack to keep condensation down internally.

[djfury05]

What's total cost?

[Daves1SS]

Originally Posted by djfury05

What's total cost?

Roughly a grand. If Joe cuts you no deals at all and you piece meal it all together, could be closer to $1,150 or so but should be no more than that.
The fittings and elbows and such are part of that and they were a tad pricey.

Ed, I think the cavity that the coolant tubes run through to go to the intercooler bricks are isolated from the rotor packs and air inlet area. Surely so.

[Daves1SS]

Below is a return e-mail I got this morning from one of the lead calibrators at Edelbrock, and as you can see.......no worries with the condensation at all. Good stuff!

Hi David,

I'm glad to hear you got the t-shirt and the car is running great. The "Killer Chiller" is a great way to dramatically improve the performance of any forced induction application. Our single pass intercoolers do a good job of reducing IAT's but they are only capable of so much in HOT ambient conditions. I am not surprised that you are getting such consistent performance now that the Killer Chiller is installed. The fact that the manifold water crossover is sweating tells that whole story. Nice job on the installation instructions too. We as a company have been looking into possibly creating our own version of the chiller for various applications as well but we have to go through the song and dance of proving this is not tampering with emissions controlled equipment. Interestingly enough before the Dodge Demon debuted with a factory chiller I was pushing to begin R&D on our own version as well but costs start to add up quickly.

To answer your questions:
1. The water crossover is a completely separate casting that is bolted to the rotor housing. It is linked to the intercoolers by aluminum press in fittings. Being that there is always fluid present in the crossover cavities any condensation developed by the Killer Chiller should have no effect.

[E-Ray]

Originally Posted by Daves1SS

Below is a return e-mail I got this morning from one of the lead calibrators at Edelbrock, and as you can see.......no worries with the condensation at all. Good stuff!

That's the answer I have been waiting for. Thanks again Dave.

[Daves1SS]

Happy to help, Ray.

For anyone that does this mod, i highly suggest going with industrial 12a refrigerant as opposed to standard r134a. Just buy the 12 can case here for $88:

http://autorefrigerants.com/hydrocarbon-refrigerants

Pull full vacuum on the system, make sure you run 2 oz of pag oil in the lines, and i found that 2 full cans plus about 2-3 seconds of charge of a 3rd can was just the right amount to fill it up with in about 75-80 degree weather. Joe says you want your high side pressures at 2.85 x ambient. It's kinda tricky getting the right charge with the industrial 12a because it's a gas and you can't ever really tell when the can is full and when it's empty. But it's worth the hassle as you'll see lower temps with it than you will with the regular r134a. These instructions are provided in the standard killer chiller kit by the way.........

EDIT: Also, don't be afraid to take this on yourself if you're even somewhat mechanically inclined. I had never messed with AC systems before this, and I managed to do it and not screw anything up.
Just a few basic things to learn and do and it's really easy. There's a great youtube video that Chris Fix put up that talks about how to discharge, evacuate, and re-charge your AC system. If I can do it, anyone can lol.

[djfury05]

Curious how much the IATs would drop between this and methanol injection at the same time.. Hmm.

I assume the end goal of adding all the extra hose was to gain fluid capacity? Why not add some sort of dual outlet long container right in front of heat exchanger? Could probably find a simple 1 or even 2 gallon container that would really amp it up. Wonder how much more fluid it would take to make a difference from what you have now just under 2 gallons.