[TheShooter]

Originally Posted by Mike00

I've had those cars over the years e92 M3 and 14 tuned S4. I get the handling aspect, frankly me coming towards the v8 right now is more about that raw mean muscle piece which is half the reason I'm leaning towards the Hellcat.

As I mentioned I don't particularly care about the cornering - it will never see a track - maybe a drag strip but never a track. and the hellcat is big an heavy but we don't have anything like the Dragons Tail or the mountain roads you have out your way. So i'll never push it far enough to need more.

Frankly I'm looking for raw power, factory, american v8 power (tq). Both give it but one has a useable rear seat and trunk and the other handles beautifully.

I'm pretty sure I'll be happy in either but neither really stands above and beyond the other with my requirements (which is why GT350 isn't on the table)

Test drive may throw that out the window but we will see.

If I was starting from scratch...I'd probably also get the Hellcat! But since I have it already....the ZL1 seems like the next fun car to try.

No matter what happens, you'll have fun. Drive safe.


R

[Mike00]

Will be interesting for sure. Who knows maybe I'll be surprised when I test drive. BUt I have to admit the hellcat appeals to me because it's just plain mean. Never owned "a mean car" being 33 and jumping right into the import space.

Should be fun.

[mdmoore23]

I traded my 2016 Challenger Hellcat for my A10 ZL1. I have no regrets. For being a similar priced vehicle, I feel like the ZL1 is definitely more bang for the buck. My ZL1 was actually cheaper than my Hellcat. It's just a better executed car in my opinion. Hellcats are awesome beasts, but the ZL1 is the complete package. Plus the ZL1 can actually hook up on its factory tires. In the real world the ZL1 will be faster unless the Hellcat is on drag radials.

[BlaqWhole]

I think I like the HC more for DD. It is roomy, comfy, that blower likes to scream, it is super fast, and fun. The ZL1 is more fun in the corners for sure because it just begs to be driven fast and hard thru the turns. In the HC I don't mind taking turns slow tho...because I whip out of the turn like a mad man!! If the performance is all that matters then I think it'll be a nice change going into a ZL1. But I would say to consider everything. If you do get the ZL1, then get the PDR option with it!!

[TheShooter]

Originally Posted by mdmoore23

I traded my 2016 Challenger Hellcat for my A10 ZL1. I have no regrets. For being a similar priced vehicle, I feel like the ZL1 is definitely more bang for the buck. My ZL1 was actually cheaper than my Hellcat. It's just a better executed car in my opinion. Hellcats are awesome beasts, but the ZL1 is the complete package. Plus the ZL1 can actually hook up on its factory tires. In the real world the ZL1 will be faster unless the Hellcat is on drag radials.

Correct. The ZL1 gets the right tires out the door. When I option out the ZL1, it comes out to a few dollars under 70K. That's the same as the Hellcat. But this time I won't get the tax benefit I had in NY when I traded my SRT 392. So at least in CA I'll actually pay a bit more for the ZL1.

But I agree, as a SPORTS CAR package, the ZL1 walks all over the Hellcat. As a Hellcat owner I'd simply point out that the Hellcat has a different design goal and it succeeds hugely. Even after I get the ZL1, I'll be proud to have owned the Hellcat!

On a less important note...the Hellcat engine bay is beautiful and lends itself to dress better than the ZL1.

It's a very "orderly" engine bay...but I hope to do something fun under the hood of the ZL1.

Here's my Hellcat, which we call VaderCat!

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

Hellcat = Straight line
ZL1 = Turns (But can also do straight-line as quickly as the hellcat to a point)

Hellcats make more power when modded. That's just fact. Hellcats make 800-900 WHP with bolt ons, that's pulley, intake, E85. The 8-Speed is lightning fast too. The cars have very little to no downforce, on the highway and even drag strip, they're monsters.

The LT4 makes 650-700 RWHP on boltons + E85. 750-780ish with a Cam. 800 wheel with a ported heads, overdrive balancer, and a nice cam. After I'd say about 800-820 RWHP, you're all done with the Lt4 unless you spray it. You could always do the ever popular ProCharge conversion on the LT4, but then again you could put the 4.5L Whipple on the Hellcat too, so for apples to apples we'll talk stock blowers.

Hellcats are nasty straight line cars when modded. Stock they're no better than a stock ZL1. And it's MUCH more than just the tire that the ZL1 gets, the ZL1 has a much better balanced chassis (The alpha platform is out of this world good), an eLSD, and a very advanced traction control/torque management system. The Hellcat has TC too but it pretty much lets you blow those 275s off if you so wish.

But anyways, once modded, hellcats can receive bolt ons and drag radials, make 800-900 RWHP, drive to the strip, run a 9, and drive home in nearly stock condition.

We're more like, receive Bolt ons, heads, Cam, and drag radials, make 800 RWHP, drive to the strip but hope there's no traffic to drive in with your lumpy cam, run a 9, and drive home knowing a Hellcat just did the same thing without spending $20,000 in work.

Food for thought.

I'm a GM guy through and through, but I have to acknowledge the flag over to Mopar for straight line speed in this generation.

All of this said, if straight line speed isn't your thing and you do track days, the ZL1 can basically murder any car there, even in stock form, short of super cars.

[Tr6]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

Hellcat = Straight line
ZL1 = Turns (But can also do straight-line as quickly as the hellcat to a point)

Hellcats make more power when modded. That's just fact. Hellcats make 800-900 WHP with bolt ons, that's pulley, intake, E85. The 8-Speed is lightning fast too. The cars have very little to no downforce, on the highway and even drag strip, they're monsters.

The LT4 makes 650-700 RWHP on boltons + E85. 750-780ish with a Cam. 800 wheel with a ported heads, overdrive balancer, and a nice cam. After I'd say about 800-820 RWHP, you're all done with the Lt4 unless you spray it. You could always do the ever popular ProCharge conversion on the LT4, but then again you could put the 4.5L Whipple on the Hellcat too, so for apples to apples we'll talk stock blowers.

Hellcats are nasty straight line cars when modded. Stock they're no better than a stock ZL1. And it's MUCH more than just the tire that the ZL1 gets, the ZL1 has a much better balanced chassis (The alpha platform is out of this world good), an eLSD, and a very advanced traction control/torque management system. The Hellcat has TC too but it pretty much lets you blow those 275s off if you so wish.

But anyways, once modded, hellcats can receive bolt ons and drag radials, make 800-900 RWHP, drive to the strip, run a 9, and drive home in nearly stock condition.

We're more like, receive Bolt ons, heads, Cam, and drag radials, make 800 RWHP, drive to the strip but hope there's no traffic to drive in with your lumpy cam, run a 9, and drive home knowing a Hellcat just did the same thing without spending $20,000 in work.

Food for thought.

I'm a GM guy through and through, but I have to acknowledge the flag over to Mopar for straight line speed in this generation.

All of this said, if straight line speed isn't your thing and you do track days, the ZL1 can basically murder any car there, even in stock form, short of super cars.

I do agree with you about the HC and some ZL1 aspects. LT4 is still very powerful. Bolt ons without boost gets you about 750 rwhp (no aftermarket FI, just stock, no nitrous shots or meth/e85). Bolt ons (cam, heads, full exhaust with LTs and tune) + DR = 9 sec runs on pump gas (fasterproms just as an example)

A simple procharger alone gets you 680 rwhp on crappy ACN 91 and stock 10 psi. Top Tier 93 will net you 700+, and like I said that's just with D1 PC, not even F1. Cam, heads, e85 or meth with the F1 PC net's you 1k rwhp (vengeance racing already got one). But without replacing stock superchargers haha.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

Hellcat = Straight line
ZL1 = Turns (But can also do straight-line as quickly as the hellcat to a point)

Hellcats make more power when modded. That's just fact. Hellcats make 800-900 WHP with bolt ons, that's pulley, intake, E85. The 8-Speed is lightning fast too. The cars have very little to no downforce, on the highway and even drag strip, they're monsters.

The LT4 makes 650-700 RWHP on boltons + E85. 750-780ish with a Cam. 800 wheel with a ported heads, overdrive balancer, and a nice cam. After I'd say about 800-820 RWHP, you're all done with the Lt4 unless you spray it. You could always do the ever popular ProCharge conversion on the LT4, but then again you could put the 4.5L Whipple on the Hellcat too, so for apples to apples we'll talk stock blowers.

Hellcats are nasty straight line cars when modded. Stock they're no better than a stock ZL1. And it's MUCH more than just the tire that the ZL1 gets, the ZL1 has a much better balanced chassis (The alpha platform is out of this world good), an eLSD, and a very advanced traction control/torque management system. The Hellcat has TC too but it pretty much lets you blow those 275s off if you so wish.

But anyways, once modded, hellcats can receive bolt ons and drag radials, make 800-900 RWHP, drive to the strip, run a 9, and drive home in nearly stock condition.

We're more like, receive Bolt ons, heads, Cam, and drag radials, make 800 RWHP, drive to the strip but hope there's no traffic to drive in with your lumpy cam, run a 9, and drive home knowing a Hellcat just did the same thing without spending $20,000 in work.

Food for thought.

I'm a GM guy through and through, but I have to acknowledge the flag over to Mopar for straight line speed in this generation.

All of this said, if straight line speed isn't your thing and you do track days, the ZL1 can basically murder any car there, even in stock form, short of super cars.

A few things about both engines is that the ZL1 has 10.0:1 compression while the HC has 9.5:1 compression. The ZL1 has the 1.7 TVS blower pushing 9.4 psi boost while the HC has a 2.3 twin screw blower pushing 11.6 psi boost. So with stock blowers and just bolt-ons the HC will of course make much more power than the LT4 engine can make. However I would be interested in seeing how both engines do with the same blower...say a Whipple 2.9. I think the Whipple 4.5 is too much for both engines despite how strong they are. But if you strapped a 2.9 on both and kept the boost the same on both and dynoed them with everything else remaining stock, I do think the LT4 would make more power due to the extra compression.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by TheShooter

Not a troll.

But I am a car enthusiast. That means I really dig the Hellcat and I love to drive the Miata too. Car wars are silly and usually pushed by people who don't even own a nice car.

There are so many great cars out there these days. I'm 6'3 so I don't fit great in a Vette or Lambo (at all!), but cars like the ZL1 do fit, so I'm happy.

I doubt I'll lose anything in the way of speed from a dig because the ZL1 will launch much better as it has the right rubber. People have little idea of how hard it is to get a Hellcat to do 0-60 in under 4 seconds with stock rubber. The Hellcats best quality is really high speed. The power just never seems to end, pulling well beyond 150 MPH. But I've done that maybe three times. Seems to me that the ZL1 will just be more fun overall.

They need to give the ZL1 a better name. Even a nickname would be fine! Cool cars deserve cool names...Cobra, Hellcat, Demon. Camaro is very generic after all of these years and ZL1 sounds like a vaccine!

Anyway....My thought is...

ZL1, G-red, carbon fibre insert, black satin wrap on hood, side mirrors and spoiler. That should give me the look I want, though not quite the 1LE look, but that's okay.



R.

As has been said the ZL1/1LE is not going to be the friendly driving car you seem to be after. It is hardcore. Sure short trips on a good road would be fine. Go for the ZL1.

FYI, I'm 6'3" 220 lbs. (I'm pretty fit) and I fit very, very comfortably in my new Grand Sport, Great car!

Regarding the name ZL1 its "all" about history...google it and you'll see why enthusiast love the name.

[Sftshldr]

Regarding the name ZL1 its "all" about history...google it and you'll see why enthusiast love the name.

http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/...1_history.html

[TheShooter]

Great info and comments from all.

Today we drove the Hellcat to Marina Del Rey to go sailing. My son is 13 and he was in th back, 45 minutes there and 55 back.

What I need to do next is see how he'll feel in the back of a ZL1 compared to the Hellcat. If he's cool with it, then I'll likely make the trade after the holidays. Family first!


R.

[FringBirdAloha]

Originally Posted by Tr6

Welcome! Great place to be to get all the info you need!

ZL1 is actually faster than a Hellcat 1/4 mile. Albeit extremely close and it is a drivers ability after all. Hellcat on an open road is very comfortable but so is the ZL1 thanks to MRC but the weight difference does make you seem like the Hellcat is just a tad more comfortable. You can easily DD a ZL1 just as you DD a hellcat. But one thing is that you have the Charger hellcat which is just a FANTASTIC sedan. If only Chevy made a 4 door sedan with LT4 in it and didn't cost 100k but costed 65-70k (aka not a ctsv) which I have told them many times! I would totally buy an alpha platform Chevy SS with LT4 in it. Things about the ZL1 you got to understand is that, it is a coupe, it is fast on straights AND curves. They do call it "Tripple Threat" because of that and it really does accomplish it's job. You can DD it, you can take it to a real track and you can hit up the drag strip as well then just drive home, comfortably.

You mention EvoX, i know exactly what you are talking about as I had 2 evo x's. GSR and MRT. Also have modded the hell out of them (except built block). The tiny gas tank, rough ride (had bilstein shocks with eibach pro kit on both), 5 speed, ride quality and noise was just horrid when it came to road trips.

To me, it really sounds like that the ZL1 1LE is NOT for you but a ZL1 with A10 is. 1LE is NOT made for DD purposes in mind, can you do it? Well yeah. You can DD ANY car, it does have wheels and tires after all. The real question is, do you WANT to? That, for me is a... Hell no. 1LE is a TRACK PACK. Going from a Charger Hellcat to a ZL1 1LE, you will definitely regret it (if you decide to DD). When it comes to the fun of it, ZL1 is a bit more fun purely because of the speeds you can actually corner with AND have a stupid amount of power coming in and out of them. Even for the non 1LE ZL1. Just comparing my Evo X that had fully suspension upgrades (sway bars, springs, shocks, brakes, the whole deal) my stock 2SS with MRC out performs it even in tour mode, let alone sport or track mode.

As for space... Charger Hellcat has a crap load more space. Can't even compare it to a Camaro. Coupe vs Sedan alone... The back seats of the camaro are for baby seats and backpacks and for insurance reasons. Not for any adult human being lol. My dogs don't even fit back there... 1 contortionist can fit very well though. As for the trunk, it is very spacious however the trunk opening is laughable. Golf club bags and carry on size luggage fit just fine but an actual decent size hard cover Samsonite will NOT fit in it.

As for your questions:
1: You can buy and install a 1LE wing to a ZL1. It will cost you about 3500 easy.
2: Garnet red is a perfect choice The canards up front, not entire sure if you can fit them or they actually come WITH a bumper. But worse case, you could literally buy an OEM 1LE ZL1 bumper, paint and slap it on. Parts aren't readily available from the 1LE just yet as they are stockpiling it for customers who actually OWN it first. Wings became available and so did the brake lights but other stuff, not so much. There will be more ZL1 1LE OEM style aftermarkets wings in the works. One is already out by 6LE Design ($1500). I am very certain that ACS composite, Street Scene, RK sport will make one as well.
3: You are not being harsh. If people fail to see that 1LE = Track pack, that's their personal problem. Not yours. 1LE's Will NEVER be as good and as comfortable as a non 1LE on the road. But a non 1LE will NEVER be as good as a 1LE on track. Pros and cons.

Feel free to do some research on here about the ZL1 and ZL1 1LE! Also, while being on the other side of the country, don't let that stop you from contacting Becky @ Michael Bates Chevy in MI (used to be Rodgers Chevy till very recently) whom also sponsors the forums and does ship vehicles to the entire 48 states. It would be EXTREMELY rare that you would be able to find better customer service and knowledge from any other person and place!

The canards are available now. All of the aero pieces are from ACS composite or GM Parts Guy.
They install using the DRL delete bezels they ship with, and by drilling a couple extra holes in the front bumper.

I have ordered the ZL1 1LE rear wing, canards, front splitter, lower grille, and grey LED tail lights. Cost about $4420 shipped.

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

Originally Posted by Tr6

I do agree with you about the HC and some ZL1 aspects. LT4 is still very powerful. Bolt ons without boost gets you about 750 rwhp (no aftermarket FI, just stock, no nitrous shots or meth/e85). Bolt ons (cam, heads, full exhaust with LTs and tune) + DR = 9 sec runs on pump gas (fasterproms just as an example)

A simple procharger alone gets you 680 rwhp on crappy ACN 91 and stock 10 psi. Top Tier 93 will net you 700+, and like I said that's just with D1 PC, not even F1. Cam, heads, e85 or meth with the F1 PC net's you 1k rwhp (vengeance racing already got one). But without replacing stock superchargers haha.

No way you're getting 750 RWHP on bolt ons with the LT4. It takes E85, Ported Blower, upper pulley, intake, headers, and a great tune to get to 680-710 RWHP. Pushing past that will require internal engine modification or some other method that I don't know about.

If we're talking aftermarket blowers than no question a Procharger F series swap would be the way to go for an easy 800 RWHP with capability over 1000.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

A few things about both engines is that the ZL1 has 10.0:1 compression while the HC has 9.5:1 compression. The ZL1 has the 1.7 TVS blower pushing 9.4 psi boost while the HC has a 2.3 twin screw blower pushing 11.6 psi boost. So with stock blowers and just bolt-ons the HC will of course make much more power than the LT4 engine can make. However I would be interested in seeing how both engines do with the same blower...say a Whipple 2.9. I think the Whipple 4.5 is too much for both engines despite how strong they are. But if you strapped a 2.9 on both and kept the boost the same on both and dynoed them with everything else remaining stock, I do think the LT4 would make more power due to the extra compression.

Yeah I know about the compression and blower spinning. LT4, like the LSA/LS9, has a point where spinning the blower hard doesn't gain much more power and just adds heat forcing pulled timing. The limit on the Hellcat's blower before the aforementioned happens is higher, hence why hellcats have made 900-1000 on the stock blower.

The stock S/C with pulley's on 93 octane will make around 750 to 800 without meth injection and E85 will make between 900 and 1K wheel hp

I'd still take a ZL1/Z06 any day over a FatCat, but there's no slighting the straight line speed of a Hellcat vs a Camaro.

[TheShooter]

I wish some folks would refrain from terms like "fatCat."

The ZL1 is no lightweight. And a Charger Hellcat uses that extra weight to seat 4-5 people (4 comfortably) and be downright comfortable while also having room to hit Costco, Best Buy and the mall with extra room leftover in the trunk. It's a complete car when needed and a beast when desired.

If I trade for the ZL1 I'll gain some nice things, but also lose others.


R.