[nicktechla]

Originally Posted by Tr6

Welcome! Great place to be to get all the info you need!

ZL1 is actually faster than a Hellcat 1/4 mile. Albeit extremely close and it is a drivers ability after all. Hellcat on an open road is very comfortable but so is the ZL1 thanks to MRC but the weight difference does make you seem like the Hellcat is just a tad more comfortable. You can easily DD a ZL1 just as you DD a hellcat. But one thing is that you have the Charger hellcat which is just a FANTASTIC sedan. If only Chevy made a 4 door sedan with LT4 in it and didn't cost 100k but costed 65-70k (aka not a ctsv) which I have told them many times! I would totally buy an alpha platform Chevy SS with LT4 in it. Things about the ZL1 you got to understand is that, it is a coupe, it is fast on straights AND curves. They do call it "Tripple Threat" because of that and it really does accomplish it's job. You can DD it, you can take it to a real track and you can hit up the drag strip as well then just drive home, comfortably.

You mention EvoX, i know exactly what you are talking about as I had 2 evo x's. GSR and MRT. Also have modded the hell out of them (except built block). The tiny gas tank, rough ride (had bilstein shocks with eibach pro kit on both), 5 speed, ride quality and noise was just horrid when it came to road trips.

To me, it really sounds like that the ZL1 1LE is NOT for you but a ZL1 with A10 is. 1LE is NOT made for DD purposes in mind, can you do it? Well yeah. You can DD ANY car, it does have wheels and tires after all. The real question is, do you WANT to? That, for me is a... Hell no. 1LE is a TRACK PACK. Going from a Charger Hellcat to a ZL1 1LE, you will definitely regret it (if you decide to DD). When it comes to the fun of it, ZL1 is a bit more fun purely because of the speeds you can actually corner with AND have a stupid amount of power coming in and out of them. Even for the non 1LE ZL1. Just comparing my Evo X that had fully suspension upgrades (sway bars, springs, shocks, brakes, the whole deal) my stock 2SS with MRC out performs it even in tour mode, let alone sport or track mode.

As for space... Charger Hellcat has a crap load more space. Can't even compare it to a Camaro. Coupe vs Sedan alone... The back seats of the camaro are for baby seats and backpacks and for insurance reasons. Not for any adult human being lol. My dogs don't even fit back there... 1 contortionist can fit very well though. As for the trunk, it is very spacious however the trunk opening is laughable. Golf club bags and carry on size luggage fit just fine but an actual decent size hard cover Samsonite will NOT fit in it.

As for your questions:
1: You can buy and install a 1LE wing to a ZL1. It will cost you about 3500 easy.
2: Garnet red is a perfect choice The canards up front, not entire sure if you can fit them or they actually come WITH a bumper. But worse case, you could literally buy an OEM 1LE ZL1 bumper, paint and slap it on. Parts aren't readily available from the 1LE just yet as they are stockpiling it for customers who actually OWN it first. Wings became available and so did the brake lights but other stuff, not so much. There will be more ZL1 1LE OEM style aftermarkets wings in the works. One is already out by 6LE Design ($1500). I am very certain that ACS composite, Street Scene, RK sport will make one as well.
3: You are not being harsh. If people fail to see that 1LE = Track pack, that's their personal problem. Not yours. 1LE's Will NEVER be as good and as comfortable as a non 1LE on the road. But a non 1LE will NEVER be as good as a 1LE on track. Pros and cons.

Feel free to do some research on here about the ZL1 and ZL1 1LE! Also, while being on the other side of the country, don't let that stop you from contacting Becky @ Michael Bates Chevy in MI (used to be Rodgers Chevy till very recently) whom also sponsors the forums and does ship vehicles to the entire 48 states. It would be EXTREMELY rare that you would be able to find better customer service and knowledge from any other person and place!

ahhh i don't miss the tiny gas tank of the Evo! I used to joke when i'd drive it to Vegas with some friends that a mid air refueling would be nice because it was so annoying to have to make multiple fuel stops. especially if you were on the boost for a bit

[2SSRS@Gen5diy]

First off your not doing 3500RPM in 6th at 75MPH, its more like 2500 RPM, at 3500 your at 124 MPH so you need to drive one first, but as there are not many out there you want have the chance to do so, next get the ZL1 its meant more for the mass pop.

[1970judge]

Originally Posted by TheShooter

Not a troll.

But I am a car enthusiast. That means I really dig the Hellcat and I love to drive the Miata too. Car wars are silly and usually pushed by people who don't even own a nice car.

There are so many great cars out there these days. I'm 6'3 so I don't fit great in a Vette or Lambo (at all!), but cars like the ZL1 do fit, so I'm happy.

I doubt I'll lose anything in the way of speed from a dig because the ZL1 will launch much better as it has the right rubber. People have little idea of how hard it is to get a Hellcat to do 0-60 in under 4 seconds with stock rubber. The Hellcats best quality is really high speed. The power just never seems to end, pulling well beyond 150 MPH. But I've done that maybe three times. Seems to me that the ZL1 will just be more fun overall.

They need to give the ZL1 a better name. Even a nickname would be fine! Cool cars deserve cool names...Cobra, Hellcat, Demon. Camaro is very generic after all of these years and ZL1 sounds like a vaccine!

Anyway....My thought is...

ZL1, G-red, carbon fibre insert, black satin wrap on hood, side mirrors and spoiler. That should give me the look I want, though not quite the 1LE look, but that's okay.



R.

Only thing I would change in your thought process is the color. Its too nice of a car to be painted Maroon (or Blilver). But to each his own yeah? Hope to see you in a ZL1 soon!

[KaBoom1701]

The ZL1 1LE is a track focused car only.....

It's really that simple.

[BlaqWhole]

I have a Challenger HC with M6 and a ZL1 with A10. For me the A10 is much more fun and easier to drive than the M6 especially when I am tired. So I would drop the ZL1 1LE off the list if I were you. Just based off the trans and some of your statements.

Yes the HC is more comfy, easier to get in and out of, and probably more noticed because of 707 hp...people do not forget that number. But the HC does not take bumps well in any mode. I go over bumps and it's like driving a car with a wood suspension. And the HC does not handle anywhere near as good as the ZL1. You say the HC is fun in the corners? Wait until you get your hands on a ZL1. The speeds it can achieve in a corner, even the standard ZL1, is just incredible.

Now for the ZL1, if you're used to 4 doors, you are not gonna like it. It is literally an effort getting in and out of especially for us guys over 6'1". The ZL1 does take bumps on the road better...but I can only compare it to the Challenger HC. For all I know the Charger HC might be more comfy than the Chally. The ZL1 does not have the subwoofers like the HC so that might be a drag. Once you are used to subwoofers it is hard to go back. And definitely the lack of space. The A10 trans is sweet.

Performance-wise, the ZL1 keeps up with the HC due to the weight difference. But the HC just FEELS more powerful and raw even if it isn't. The HC has lots of apps and features that the ZL1 doesn't. It is a little thing but you might actually miss it. The ZL1 is slightly better in MPGs. But it is much more limited because it has a 1.7 roots blower vs the HC's 2.3 twin screw blower. They both are noticeable and the ZL1 commands a lot of attention. It is a good looking car. I get soo many compliments in it. And it is much more rare than a HC. But people know what the HC is.

Both of these cars are amazingly awesome and I would have a terribly difficult time choosing. After owning both, I would have an even more difficult time choosing, lol!! So I really can't help you. The fact that you're on a ZL1 section of a Camaro forum asking this question tells me that you already know which way you're swaying towards...perhaps you're looking for some of us to give you a biased answer, lol!! But honestly, I think both cars are just very well liked and respected by both sides that it would be difficult for anyone to really give you a biased answer. So it would come down to if you can sacrifice the space for handling, the well-known car that wows people for something not many people have seen and will go wild over, etc. Since you have already experienced the HC, maybe it is time to give the ZL1 a try.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by TheShooter

I was not aware that ZL1's were under 11 seconds in the 1/4 mile with DR's, but if so...cool! Hellcat's are pretty much stuck at 10.85. My friends Challenger has a best of 10.95. with just DR's'

But back in the real world I have no doubt that I'll be faster off the line with the ZL1 because it's got the correct rubber on day 1. Top speed (mythically) is likely the same as well. The Charger Hellcat is at 204 MPH. I believe the ZL1 is at 198. But again, the aero of the Hellcat is helped by those skinny 275's. The fatter ZL1 tires add a lot of windage.

The Hellcat is really a cruiser with a heavy dose of insanity. BTW, the back seats of the Camaro aren't that bad. My 13 year old son is okay back there with some compromise in the passenger seat.

The more I think about it, the more I'm certain I won't add the 1Le wing. It's too much like up badging to me. Thanks for the comments. I'm really looking forward to driving the ZL1 on the local LA roads and hanging with Jay Leno!


R.

Officially, I think the HCs are rated (best time tested thru MT and other sources) at 11.7 bone stock while the ZL1 was 11.4 (same type of testing) bone stock. The HC needs DRs which makes it non-stock while the ZL1 with A10 does low 11s on the factory equipped street tires. But the ZL1 also has some really awesome Goodyear tires in a 305 while the HC has Pirelli P-Zeros (I am not a fan of these) at 275. Put DRs on both and I think you'd have a really good fight on your hands. Roll-ons the HC and ZL1 are neck and neck provided the trans is the auto vs auto or manual vs manual. In either car, the manual will lose to the auto on a roll.

[Tr6]

Originally Posted by TheShooter

I was not aware that ZL1's were under 11 seconds in the 1/4 mile with DR's, but if so...cool! Hellcat's are pretty much stuck at 10.85. My friends Challenger has a best of 10.95. with just DR's'

But back in the real world I have no doubt that I'll be faster off the line with the ZL1 because it's got the correct rubber on day 1. Top speed (mythically) is likely the same as well. The Charger Hellcat is at 204 MPH. I believe the ZL1 is at 198. But again, the aero of the Hellcat is helped by those skinny 275's. The fatter ZL1 tires add a lot of windage.

The Hellcat is really a cruiser with a heavy dose of insanity. BTW, the back seats of the Camaro aren't that bad. My 13 year old son is okay back there with some compromise in the passenger seat.

The more I think about it, the more I'm certain I won't add the 1Le wing. It's too much like up badging to me. Thanks for the comments. I'm really looking forward to driving the ZL1 on the local LA roads and hanging with Jay Leno!


R.

From what we've seen is that a ZL1 runs low 11s (11.3/4) completely stock with no DR. So high 10s easy with DRs. It's been seen that the ZL1 ran high 9s with just DR and 150 shot. But the numbers are so close that it truly doesn't matter nor does it establish superiority over the other imo. Both cars are priced pretty much the same, 1 has 57 more HP but also heavier, the other can corner as well as straight line. Top speed wise, Hellcat is definitely rated higher, hell (pun intended haha)... Isn't the charger fastest top speed sedan? ZL1 did however hit 202 completely stock. But all in all, in reality... doesn't matter unless you annually attend Texas mile or similar events.

I still cannot believe dodge added 275s to the rear of a 707HP car... I think they learned their lesson 4 years later and coming out with a widebody which I believe has 300+ rears. SS with 455 hp and the vette with the same LT1 engine has 275s lol. Zo6 with 650hp has 315s! ZL1 has 305s... And the fact that goodyear did an absolute amazing job with the stock tires. People like to complain about the stock tires, oh they are runflats, oh they are crap. They are better than PSS. Not the cup2's but hell of a lot better dry AND wet traction. Threadlife, so far I have 10k miles on them, still look new and trust me. I DRIVE the car like it's made for. Something about about hearing that chirp between 1st and 2nd gear while on WOT is just soothing

Originally Posted by nicktechla

ahhh i don't miss the tiny gas tank of the Evo! I used to joke when i'd drive it to Vegas with some friends that a mid air refueling would be nice because it was so annoying to have to make multiple fuel stops. especially if you were on the boost for a bit

LOL!!!!!!!! So true!!!! I used to drive down to Dallas A LOT... About 560 miles. I had to gas up 3 times with the evo with or without boost lol. I end up going down to Dallas, same distance with quarter tank to spare in the camaro and I don't even have AFM. 19 gallon tank and about 10 more MPG helps a lot lol.

[Ray_Dogg]

No one has been able to eclipse the 11 second barrier switching to drag radials on a ZL1. Why? Computer imposed torque management.

Eventually someone or maybe they already have will change the management on theirs but I'm assuming once they do this knowing the warranty is gone they will already have other mods further moving it away from stock.

[jdasnt3]

Originally Posted by Tr6

2SS with 455 hp as 265s and the vette with the same LT1 engine has 275s lol. Zo6 with 650hp has 315s! ZL1 has 305s.

We have 275's in back, same as the standard Vette.

[TheShooter]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Officially, I think the HCs are rated (best time tested thru MT and other sources) at 11.7 bone stock while the ZL1 was 11.4 (same type of testing) bone stock. The HC needs DRs which makes it non-stock while the ZL1 with A10 does low 11s on the factory equipped street tires. But the ZL1 also has some really awesome Goodyear tires in a 305 while the HC has Pirelli P-Zeros (I am not a fan of these) at 275. Put DRs on both and I think you'd have a really good fight on your hands. Roll-ons the HC and ZL1 are neck and neck provided the trans is the auto vs auto or manual vs manual. In either car, the manual will lose to the auto on a roll.

The Charger Hellcat is NHRA certified at 11.0 on street tires. On a prepped surface, no doubt. REAL world is more like mid to high 11's. With DR's you're expected to get into the 10's. I have yet to see a ZL1 do that, but it's early in the game.

Obviously I'm looking at the ZR1 because REAL WORLD it's as fast as my Hellcat and can also handle in a way the big Cat can't. I'm NOT bashing the Hellcat. I knew what it was when I bought it and it's never gets old driving it.

But driving out on the Snake or Angeles Crest is ZL1, Focus RS, Miata, 911, STI (etc) territory. Hellcats struggle on the best driving roads here and I want to get more into that. I understand that I'll be losing something too, especially the practical aspects of the Charger.

But I've had fun with one of the worlds fastest sedans, so now I want to enjoy a modern "drivers car." Even my dealer said the 1Le is NOT a drivers car! He said it's a track car and pretty bad as a road car. So the decision is made...still fighting over colors. My Hellcat is black...and pretty sinister. I like the ZL1 in red, gray...and black too.

Here's a shot of my Hellcat...I'll cry when she's gone!

[Tr6]

Originally Posted by jdasnt3

We have 275's in back, same as the standard Vette.

Duh! Don't know why I said 265, thanks!

[Mike00]

Interesting thread. I'm literally considering a Hellcat Challenger or ZL1 purchase this winter and I'm not sure what to go with.

Honestly insurance numbers and winter deals may be what pushes me towards one or the other - assuming I get what I expect in the test drive (which I refuse to do until October or I'll have one too soon).

With the ZL1 A10:
- Sport car sexy looks
- great seats but not useable rear (can you even fit a car seat? not that I have kids yet....)
- Great handling and power but more refined than the old muscle cars.

Hellcat
- Raw muscle feel and the old school look that I do love
- Rear seats useable for adults and trunk space that rivals an SUV (well not quite but pretty damn close)
- Handling isn't great but fine for the streets
- Crappy tires but easily fixed which at least makes it fast enough to not matter when comparing to the ZL1
- Cat exhaust probably sounds a bit meaner stock

Insurance quotes are out with my agent now and I can't wait for October for the test drive. I decided it was time for a v8 american car before wife pushes kids and they disappear - coming from BMW/Audi/LExus it's a big change.

Funny though Mustang isn't even in contention due to their lack of ZL1/Hellcat offering. Unless I want to consider taking a base GT dropping in a supercharger and other upgades in after 2500 miles and modding it to hell.

[TheShooter]

Originally Posted by Mike00

Interesting thread. I'm literally considering a Hellcat Challenger or ZL1 purchase this winter and I'm not sure what to go with.

Honestly insurance numbers and winter deals may be what pushes me towards one or the other - assuming I get what I expect in the test drive (which I refuse to do until October or I'll have one too soon).

With the ZL1 A10:
- Sport car sexy looks
- great seats but not useable rear (can you even fit a car seat? not that I have kids yet....)
- Great handling and power but more refined than the old muscle cars.

Hellcat
- Raw muscle feel and the old school look that I do love
- Rear seats useable for adults and trunk space that rivals an SUV (well not quite but pretty damn close)
- Handling isn't great but fine for the streets
- Crappy tires but easily fixed which at least makes it fast enough to not matter when comparing to the ZL1
- Cat exhaust probably sounds a bit meaner stock

Insurance quotes are out with my agent now and I can't wait for October for the test drive. I decided it was time for a v8 american car before wife pushes kids and they disappear - coming from BMW/Audi/LExus it's a big change.

Funny though Mustang isn't even in contention due to their lack of ZL1/Hellcat offering. Unless I want to consider taking a base GT dropping in a supercharger and other upgades in after 2500 miles and modding it to hell.

Listen, obviously I'm a fan of the Hellcat. It pretty much does everything well, but it's still not a drivers car. There is almost zero communication from the wheel of my Charger. It's a point and shoot machine and you learn the limits out of trust in what SRT did with the suspension. Better tires will not aid you much.

Those who say it's a straight-line car are obviously not drivers or repeating what basement dwellers like to say. It handles fine; it's just not a sports car. It's a very good package and if you like speed and power, this is about as raw as it gets. And don't kid yourself because the Hellcat is laying down more than 707 HP.

But a ZL1 is giving about the same level of power to weight and ADDS world-class handling. It's a real sports car while the Hellcat really isn't. When it comes to being practical, forget it. The Hellcat is a HUGE step up.

I don't regret owning the Hellcat for a second. But I'd like a more complete package and the ZL1 is it. And while it's missing the practical edge compared to my Hellcat, it's a way to get Vette type fun while still being a real car. At 6'3 I don't fit into a Vette or Viper anyway!

I do think a Hellcat beats Camaro and Mustang in one area....attitude! That said, attitude won't handle those corners at all.


R.

[Mike00]

Originally Posted by TheShooter

Listen, obviously I'm a fan of the Hellcat. It pretty much does everything well, but it's still not a drivers car. There is almost zero communication from the wheel of my Charger. It's a point and shoot machine and you learn the limits out of trust in what SRT did with the suspension. Better tires will not aid you much.

Those who say it's a straight-line car are obviously not drivers or repeating what basement dwellers like to say. It handles fine; it's just not a sports car. It's a very good package and if you like speed and power, this is about as raw as it gets. And don't kid yourself because the Hellcat is laying down more than 707 HP.

But a ZL1 is giving about the same level of power to weight and ADDS world-class handling. It's a real sports car while the Hellcat really isn't. When it comes to being practical, forget it. The Hellcat is a HUGE step up.

I don't regret owning the Hellcat for a second. But I'd like a more complete package and the ZL1 is it. And while it's missing the practical edge compared to my Hellcat, it's a way to get Vette type fun while still being a real car. At 6'3 I don't fit into a Vette or Viper anyway!

I do think a Hellcat beats Camaro and Mustang in one area....attitude! That said, attitude won't handle those corners at all.


R.

I've had those cars over the years e92 M3 and 14 tuned S4. I get the handling aspect, frankly me coming towards the v8 right now is more about that raw mean muscle piece which is half the reason I'm leaning towards the Hellcat.

As I mentioned I don't particularly care about the cornering - it will never see a track - maybe a drag strip but never a track. and the hellcat is big an heavy but we don't have anything like the Dragons Tail or the mountain roads you have out your way. So i'll never push it far enough to need more.

Frankly I'm looking for raw power, factory, american v8 power (tq). Both give it but one has a useable rear seat and trunk and the other handles beautifully.

I'm pretty sure I'll be happy in either but neither really stands above and beyond the other with my requirements (which is why GT350 isn't on the table)

Test drive may throw that out the window but we will see.