[RenegadeXR]

Originally Posted by 396ssrat

Whomever sign's off on the styling at GM should be fired. That is the main reason they are failing. Not rocket science. How many grilles does one car need? They put three on more than one model and that front end is a deal killer along with cheap plastic interiors.

*Whoever (sorry, grammar nazi.)

I think the interiors have made a lot of progress, especially by American car standards. The front fascias of the cars need a lot of work. I understand there's a push for a "corporate" face, but I'm saddened to see that the Camaro ended up with the same "angry stingray" kind of face that all other Chevy cars have now and that the Mustang has the same "gulping catfish / Aston Martin rip-off" face that all Fords have. The 5th gen Camaro and Mustang had unique faces that looked like nothing else in their lineup.

Meanwhile, the Corvette continues to get special treatment and is exempt from the "corporate" face. Then again, it's always been in its own special hermitically sealed category, not even donning a bowtie.

Here's to hoping the MY2019 Camaro and MY2019 Malibu begin a departure from the "corporate" face. They're both coincidentally in sync in terms of their initial model year and their refresh cycle, so it would be a good apples-to-apples comparison to see what directions they take. If they both go in similar directions, it isn't a good sign.

[396ssrat]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

GM is failing? News to me.

OK, many of GM's product lines are failing. Ever ask yourself why so many Import brands outsell GM's offerings?
Don't get me wrong, I'm a GM retiree, I loved what I did for a living and took great pride in my work but you can't make Chicken out of Chicken Sh*+. The design department is responsible the primary reason cars sell. Reliability is second to that. If what you build doesn't appeal to the public, a buyer will buy what does. That 3 grille design is a loser and those are the cars in trouble.
No this doesn't apply to the Vette and Camaro. The C-7 is awesome in it's stylng.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by MotownBoy

Hey, Rocks, before you blow up the unions, read a few accounts of Ford pre unions. And Ford was the best of the bunch.

Unions had their place and time, and at the time they were absolutely necessary. We should actually give them proper respect as men were injured and died in fights to get better working conditions and pay. I'm talking about the 1900s-WWII.

However, starting in the 1950s the companies started giving the unions MORE than they needed. By the 1970s all the UAW had to do was mention the word strike when they sneezed and the big 3 gave them more money, more vacation, relaxed work rules, and less responsibility as an employee. By the 1990s the floor sweepers were making $25.00/hr and you could punch your buddie's time card in for work all week while he's on vacation. Don't believe that? Ask people who worked in any plant.

Look at the build quality of American cars from 1950-1975.

Throw in gold plated healthcare coverage and better retirement than people who actually earned college degrees, or busted their but in construction for 30 years, and it was no wonder Rick Wagoner had to run to the President and Congress for a loan just to keep the lights on.

Thank the unions for what they did 70+ years ago, but that's it. They got too fat and happy and cost the company money, productivity, and quality.

[396ssrat]

Originally Posted by RenegadeXR

*Whoever (sorry, grammar nazi.)

I think the interiors have made a lot of progress, especially by American car standards. The front fascias of the cars need a lot of work. I understand there's a push for a "corporate" face, but I'm saddened to see that the Camaro ended up with the same "angry stingray" kind of face that all other Chevy cars have now and that the Mustang has the same "gulping catfish / Aston Martin rip-off" face that all Fords have. The 5th gen Camaro and Mustang had unique faces that looked like nothing else in their lineup.

Meanwhile, the Corvette continues to get special treatment and is exempt from the "corporate" face. Then again, it's always been in its own special hermitically sealed category, not even donning a bowtie.

Here's to hoping the MY2019 Camaro and MY2019 Malibu begin a departure from the "corporate" face. They're both coincidentally in sync in terms of their initial model year and their refresh cycle, so it would be a good apples-to-apples comparison to see what directions they take. If they both go in similar directions, it isn't a good sign.

Thanks for the correction.

[396ssrat]

Originally Posted by fastball

Unions had their place and time, and at the time they were absolutely necessary. We should actually give them proper respect as men were injured and died in fights to get better working conditions and pay. I'm talking about the 1900s-WWII.

However, starting in the 1950s the companies started giving the unions MORE than they needed. By the 1970s all the UAW had to do was mention the word strike when they sneezed and the big 3 gave them more money, more vacation, relaxed work rules, and less responsibility as an employee. By the 1990s the floor sweepers were making $25.00/hr and you could punch your buddie's time card in for work all week while he's on vacation. Don't believe that? Ask people who worked in any plant.

Look at the build quality of American cars from 1950-1975.

Throw in gold plated healthcare coverage and better retirement than people who actually earned college degrees, or busted their but in construction for 30 years, and it was no wonder Rick Wagoner had to run to the President and Congress for a loan just to keep the lights on.

Thank the unions for what they did 70+ years ago, but that's it. They got too fat and happy and cost the company money, productivity, and quality.

My only complaint with Union is that they protected "Slugs" who didn't deserve a job. I don't agree with the rest of your remarks. Like it or not, Unions are still necessary to keep things fair. Otherwise it would be all about the stock market and profit. A man has the right to work for a living wage and in reality there was nothing wrong with the medical insurance which was negotiated in contract talks. Many with so called higher education can't find their way out of a classroom let alone produce anything of value. Take a look at the "Educated" in Congress.
College is over rated in many many cases. A trade with common sense and skills is of equal or greater value.

[IMadeYouReadThis]

Originally Posted by 396ssrat

My only complaint with Union is that they protected "Slugs" who didn't deserve a job. I don't agree with the rest of your remarks. Like it or not, Unions are still necessary to keep things fair. Otherwise it would be all about the stock market and profit. A man has the right to work for a living wage and in reality there was nothing wrong with the medical insurance which was negotiated in contract talks. Many with so called higher education can't find their way out of a classroom let alone produce anything of value. Take a look at the "Educated" in Congress.
College is over rated in many many cases. A trade with common sense and skills is of equal or greater value.

AGREED