[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Initial reviews show saying the ZL1 1LE drives a bit rough on public roads. This isn't a result of a poorly designed chassis, but springs that are crazy stiff and shocks that are hard mounted to the frame. Maybe you should read some of the initial reviews....it seems like a mustang fanboy is more knowledgeable about 1LE than you.

Just one excerpt...

"Let’s get the bad news out of the way. As a result of the decision to hard-mount the dampers to the car—and this is me being charitable—ride quality is not great. Being less kind—especially if you’re on ripped up, lumpy pavement—the ZL1 1LE’s ride flat-out sucks. It’s brutal, and over big bumps at speed, the rear end seems to run out of travel. That’s the trade-off for supercar handling everywhere else. Can you live with the car as a daily driver? Yes. Just avoid potholes like the plague."

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevr...t-test-review/

As for my other comments, you'll have to re-read my previous post.

That still just happens to be how that particular driver felt about the car. I mean, what was he comparing it to? A freakin Towncar? If you get this car and know what it is built for then I am sure the ride would not be an issue. And they did not mention that. I could see if it was rough compared to other cars with the same cornering capabilities. But to just outright complain about it makes them look like wusses.

[Joe's_cool_1le]

SUPERCAR!!! I Love it. Granted I had the first Supercharged Gen6 1LE so I should probably get some royalties. Everyone has to admit... That car is badass period. Only thing missing on it is a Whipple. Sorry couldn't resist adding my needless dribble. Apparently that's what this thread has turd into.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

In the second to last paragraph of the magazine article Lieberman, in explaining why he picked the Mustang, states "The R is just more fun to drive."

Firstly, that is entirely plausible.

Secondly, since "more fun to drive" is not quantifiable it is pointless to try to pick that opinion apart using numbers.

Also... earlier in the article he states that he prefers the handling of the SS 1LE over both the ZL1 and the R. So he's clearly not a "numbers rule the day" kind of guy.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by hotlap

In that case, both the GT500 and ZL1 were grand touring configurations and the GT500 was hard to live with and therefore lost. Job #1 was being a good grand tour-er and the GT500 was not. In this case, the GT350R won because it was a more raw track car. The ZL1 is a GT (that happens to be a better track car). Duh.

Motor Trend lost all credibility here because they dragged out the mullet drag racer insult at the on set. Even you have acknowledged that is not Chevy's primary focus so wtf? Otherwise, I couldn't care less because they chose an apple over an orange because the orange wasn't an apple.

You just don't see it do you. The constant argument here is the faster car lost as was the case in 2012 review. And I bet in 2012 you had no problem with the results correct? Sorry if you didn't like MT mullet reference but that's how your competition views you.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by newmoon

You just don't see it do you. The constant argument here is the faster car lost as was the case in 2012 review. And I bet in 2012 you had no problem with the results correct? Sorry if you didn't like MT mullet reference but that's how your competition views you.

Why did the faster car lose? Because it wasn't raw. I.e. what the ZL1 is specifically designed not to be. Apples and oranges. So if the numbers don't matter, what was the point?

The gen5 comparison you reference was between two cars designed for the same role. A powerful GT. The ZL1 was easier to drive at the limit and more comfortable doing it. The primary purpose of the cars.

What you don't see is that Dodge owns the mullet crowd that you constantly refer to as most people. Your narrow fixation with straight line speed blinds you to the fact that the 2013-14 GT500 was an otherwise rough car

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Why did the faster car lose? Because it wasn't raw. I.e. what the ZL1 is specifically designed not to be. Apples and oranges. So if the numbers don't matter, what was the point?

What you don't see is that Dodge owns the mullet crowd that you constantly refer to as most people.

The point was, the head to head was for the best drivers car of the two. They chose the car they would rather have, plain and simple. In other words, they enjoyed driving the GT350R over the ZL1. This shouldn't be a surprise, as in many other head to heads they chose the slower car. It's not all about 1/4 mile and lap numbers, as most of us don't buy a car purely on what they can do off the showroom floor.

Quite honestly, it sounds as if they also prefer the SS 1LE over the ZL1 with some of their comments.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

The point was, the head to head was for the best drivers car of the two. They chose the car they would rather have, plain and simple. In other words, they enjoyed driving the GT350R over the ZL1. This shouldn't be a surprise, as in many other head to heads they chose the slower car. It's not all about 1/4 mile and lap numbers, as most of us don't buy a car purely on what they can do off the showroom floor.

Quite honestly, it sounds as if they also prefer the SS 1LE over the ZL1 with some of their comments.

If I remember, the GT500 did not have all the refinements of the ZL1 back then. The ZL1 had mag-ride suspension and a bunch of other goodies while the GT500 was just a Mustang with a solid axle, killer drivetrain, and hard suspension. The GT500 was faster, much faster. It wasn't even a contest really. But that is all it was and all it could offer. No sunroof option, no auto trans, and other stuff I can't remember. The ZL1 was plenty fast and offered more and they took that into consideration. It was nothing subjective about their choice. Personally tho, if this was 2013 all over again, I would have picked the GT500 over the ZL1. The ZL1 is nice and quick. But the GT500 was just a monster.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Why did the faster car lose? Because it wasn't raw. I.e. what the ZL1 is specifically designed not to be. Apples and oranges. So if the numbers don't matter, what was the point?

The gen5 comparison you reference was between two cars designed for the same role. A powerful GT. The ZL1 was easier to drive at the limit and more comfortable doing it. The primary purpose of the cars.

What you don't see is that Dodge owns the mullet crowd that you constantly refer to as most people. Your narrow fixation with straight line speed blinds you to the fact that the 2013-14 GT500 was an otherwise rough car

You can't have it both ways. If you were happy with the 2012 results you have nothing to complain about at all. The faster car lost in both reviews end of discussion. They liked the ZL1 better in the 1st comparison now they like the GT350R better.

You can't discount the fun factor. I still prefer the rawness of a 2004 Cobra over the more refined 500s and Boss mustang. While the later models are quicker and faster they are not as enjoyable to drive.

Dodge mullet hmmm 1st I ever heard of that.

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by ELS1

You can get a trial then cancel it...

Speaking of Cancel. I bought (Trial Period) the subscription just to watch the video. I just cancelled last night before they charged me. What a waste of money to keep it.

Has anyone found anything good on that MT On Demand channel? I tried...

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by newmoon

You can't have it both ways. If you were happy with the 2012 results you have nothing to complain about at all. The faster car lost in both reviews end of discussion. They liked the ZL1 better in the 1st comparison now they like the GT350R better.

You can't discount the fun factor. I still prefer the rawness of a 2004 Cobra over the more refined 500s and Boss mustang. While the later models are quicker and faster they are not as enjoyable to drive.

Dodge mullet hmmm 1st I ever heard of that.

No ones ever heard of Joe Dirt

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by newmoon

You can't have it both ways. If you were happy with the 2012 results you have nothing to complain about at all. The faster car lost in both reviews end of discussion. They liked the ZL1 better in the 1st comparison now they like the GT350R better.

You can't discount the fun factor. I still prefer the rawness of a 2004 Cobra over the more refined 500s and Boss mustang. While the later models are quicker and faster they are not as enjoyable to drive.

Dodge mullet hmmm 1st I ever heard of that.

First, I have no problem with MT selecting the GT350R in this H2H and I too would love to beat the piss out of one on a road course.

Second, there are differences between the 2013 H2H and this one. Especially the road course part. Can you can spot the difference from the excepts below?

2012 ZL1 / 2013 GT500
We took the 2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 and the 2013 Ford Shelby GT500 to the street, the dragstrip, and the racetrack.

The Street: Be it a back road or the daily commute, the Camaro ZL1 is the better street car.

The Strip: ...it’s usually a fair bet that all other things being equal, the more powerful car will win. That’s certainly the case here.

The Track: ...the cars were dead even exiting the final corner. The Mustang laid down the faster lap solely by virtue of its 82-horsepower, 75-lb-ft (and 234 lbs less weight) advantage in a drag race up the front straight to the finish line.
...the Mustang ...couldn’t repeat the performance. By the end of the first lap, the brakes had already begun to heat up so badly, we could smell them from the pits as the car passed by on the front straight. Find a 2.23-mile autocross and you might have something, but in any road race, the Mustang is going to quickly fall behind.

The End: unless it’s on a drag strip, the ZL1 is just a little bit better. Where the GT500 was about power, the ZL1 was about composed handling grip.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.motor...lby-gt500/amp/

2017 ZL1 / GT350R
Not quite apples to oranges—more like apples to pears. You can make cider from both, but there is a difference.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.motor...0r-review/amp/

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

No ones ever heard of Joe Dirt

newmoon appears unaware that the MT's mullet skit was presented with a "wanna drag race?" comment. I took it as a slam on the one dimensional

[BlaqWhole]

In the H2H between the GT500 and the ZL1, they picked the ZL1 for objective reasons. It didn't win off of anything subjective. In the H2H of the GT350 vs the 17 ZL1, the Shelby won solely off of opinions and had nothing to do with how the cars performed.

However, in each case, I preferred the losing car. In 13 I would have bought the GT500. And now I prefer the ZL1.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by hotlap

First, I have no problem with MT selecting the GT350R in this H2H and I too would love to beat the piss out of one on a road course.

Second, there are differences between the 2013 H2H and this one. Especially the road course part. Can you can spot the difference from the excepts below?

I get what your saying but bottom line was the 500 was faster, unfortunately Ford put cheap brakes on the car. Now we have an awesome GT350R who has the handling and braking package needed but doesn't have the 662 hp. If it had this wouldn't even be a conversation.