[Evolvedx27]

Originally Posted by Repman

I thought I was 16 learning to drive a stick again. the bad thing is it is so random sometimes it leaves smoothly and the next light you can do virtually the same thing and it falls flat on its face and almost stalls if you don't clutch it in time. I sure hope they find a fix for this it really takes the fun factor out of driving the car.

So true. Sport mode seems to be better for this though.

[BSR-1]

Just went in for oil change today and asked the service rep to document this problem in my file. When he went to pull the car back to the service area it did the same thing to him.
Not hard to replicate!

[travislambert]

So I asked Ann yesterday...

"Before we go through the trouble of adding the control tec, are we in agreement that the behavior described in the report is unexpected?" (see post #97 for the report)

Here's the response I was given this morning:

"The engineers believe they understand what you are referring to. If it’s what they believe, this is not an unexpected behavior or an issue but more of a characteristic of how the car was calibrated between clutch release and throttle progression. Data from the control tec would confirm that."

Perhaps it's my lack of understanding, but I've yet to see how the behavior captured could be desirable. I'm holding out some hope that maybe I just haven't communicated the problem correctly.

I plan to continue the conversation with her and the other engineers at Camaro Fest. I suppose there's no point in adding a data logger to my car until the engineers at least agree that it's not okay to pull 20+ degrees of spark timing as the clutch is released gently while moving 1.8 MPH.

Hopefully I can think of a better way to communicate my observations between now and when I speak with the engineers.

[travislambert]

Originally Posted by BSR-1

Just went in for oil change today and asked the service rep to document this problem in my file. When he went to pull the car back to the service area it did the same thing to him.
Not hard to replicate!

Thanks for sharing. Hopefully we can get enough people to document their experience to get GM to see we're not just a bunch of dummies who can't drive. There's a real problem here.

[crazydmc]

Originally Posted by travislambert

So I asked Ann yesterday...

"Before we go through the trouble of adding the control tec, are we in agreement that the behavior described in the report is unexpected?" (see post #97 for the report)

Here's the response I was given this morning:

"The engineers believe they understand what you are referring to. If it’s what they believe, this is not an unexpected behavior or an issue but more of a characteristic of how the car was calibrated between clutch release and throttle progression. Data from the control tec would confirm that."

Perhaps it's my lack of understanding, but I've yet to see how the behavior captured could be desirable. I'm holding out some hope that maybe I just haven't communicated the problem correctly.

I plan to continue the conversation with her and the other engineers at Camaro Fest. I suppose there's no point in adding a data logger to my car until the engineers at least agree that it's not okay to pull 20+ degrees of spark timing as the clutch is released gently while moving 1.8 MPH.

Hopefully I can think of a better way to communicate my observations between now and when I speak with the engineers.

you got their attention, that is good.... obviously they want to collect some data before they will make a meaningful response.

example... you go to the Dr and say "my chest hurts"... Doc says let's get an X-Ray. you say "before I get that X-Ray, I want you say that you agree that my chest should not hurt". Doc says "next"

[KyleL]

Im not sure if anyone covered this technique but this older c&d link seemed to hint at it too

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...al-test-review

Seems like turning everything off and launching from 2100-2200rpm with rolling into the throttle seemed to work the best for them. Anyone want to try it real quick? Lol

Originally Posted by Car and Driver

We got our best times by revving it to a needle’s width above 2000 rpm, releasing the clutch pedal, and quickly rolling into the throttle. Open the throttle too fast and the Goodyear blimps in back light up like the Hindenburg. If you’re too slow on the gas pedal, the engine bogs. This Camaro’s launch control had been disabled, but we regularly beat the system anyway. Like we said: Sad!

[travislambert]

Originally Posted by crazydmc

you got their attention, that is good.... obviously they want to collect some data before they will make a meaningful response.

example... you go to the Dr and say "my chest hurts"... Doc says let's get an X-Ray. you say "before I get that X-Ray, I want you say that you agree that my chest should not hurt". Doc says "next"

You should probably find a new doctor if he can't at least agree your chest shouldn't hurt... :-)

Camaro engineers know how the car was designed and how it should behave. What would be the point of gathering more data if the behavior I describe is completely by design/expected?

[Infern0]

Out of curiosity has anyone experienced this issue in touring mode specifically?

I was driving around in track mode a few days back when cwebster indicated he hadn't experienced it in that mode. The issue did seem like it was still there to me. However, when I started off today, the mode naturally resets from track straight to touring. I left it in touring for the short ride and the issue seemed to be completely nonexistent.

I went back to sport mode and made a few stop and goes through the neighborhood. In sport it is still clear as day. Going back to touring, again, almost nonexistent.

Thought I'd ask the group for a consensus just to make sure it isn't me learning how to compensate for the issue, versus the issue not being there.

[travislambert]

Originally Posted by Infern0

Out of curiosity has anyone experienced this issue in touring mode specifically?

I was driving around in track mode a few days back when cwebster indicated he hadn't experienced it in that mode. The issue did seem like it was still there to me. However, when I started off today, the mode naturally resets from track straight to touring. I left it in touring for the short ride and the issue seemed to be completely nonexistent.

I went back to sport mode and made a few stop and goes through the neighborhood. In sport it is still clear as day. Going back to touring, again, almost nonexistent.

Thought I'd ask the group for a consensus just to make sure it isn't me learning how to compensate for the issue, versus the issue not being there.

As far as I can tell, the issue is independent of the drive mode. The first few hundred miles I used Tour mode almost exclusively. So, I believe I originally noticed the problem while using Tour mode.

[ELS1]

Thanks for everyone efforts, I've been F5ing this thread all day everyday. I'm ordering my ZL1 soon and this is really concerning. Not only will this be a daily driver for me, but I'll be going to the drag strip regularly. I'll have a set of DR's specifically for the strip, but if I can't make use of them, what's the point? Anyways, I'll stay optimistic and hopefully this gets addressed soon.

Anyone that's been tuned having this issue as well? I may just have to go that route if necessary...

[travislambert]

Originally Posted by ELS1

Thanks for everyone efforts, I've been F5ing this thread all day everyday. I'm ordering my ZL1 soon and this is really concerning. Not only will this be a daily driver for me, but I'll be going to the drag strip regularly. I'll have a set of DR's specifically for the strip, but if I can't make use of them, what's the point? Anyways, I'll stay optimistic and hopefully this gets addressed soon.

Anyone that's been tuned having this issue as well? I may just have to go that route if necessary...

If you care any at all about drag strip performance I wouldn't consider the M6. It's a joke at the dragstrip. The fact that they call this car a "Triple-Threat" is laughable, and at this point, it isn't looking promising that there will be an update to correct the launch issue. I plan to continue the conversation with the engineers at Camaro Fest, but I wouldn't get your hopes up.

People have made the A10 perform well with good consistently at the strip, but it's still easily beaten by the Hellcats that came out 3 years prior. (The Camaro is obviously a better track car, but it seems you're more interested in the drag strip.)

It's likely a tune will improve the car, but until we see some more guys with tunes running 1/4 miles it'd be hard to put a number on it.

[KyleL]

Originally Posted by travislambert

If you care any at all about drag strip performance I wouldn't consider the M6. It's a joke at the dragstrip. The fact that they call this car a "Triple-Threat" is laughable, and at this point, it isn't looking promising that there will be an update to correct the launch issue. I plan to continue the conversation with the engineers at Camaro Fest, but I wouldn't get your hopes up.

People have made the A10 perform well with good consistently at the strip, but it's still easily beaten by the Hellcats that came out 3 years prior. (The Camaro is obviously a better track car, but it seems you're more interested in the drag strip.)

It's likely a tune will improve the car, but until we see some more guys with tunes running 1/4 miles it'd be hard to put a number on it.

When you say it's likely to improve, are you thinking this is something programmed that can't be overridden, or at the very least, drastically reduced?

[ELS1]

Originally Posted by travislambert

If you care any at all about drag strip performance I wouldn't consider the M6. It's a joke at the dragstrip. The fact that they call this car a "Triple-Threat" is laughable, and at this point, it isn't looking promising that there will be an update to correct the launch issue. I plan to continue the conversation with the engineers at Camaro Fest, but I wouldn't get your hopes up.

People have made the A10 perform well with good consistently at the strip, but it's still easily beaten by the Hellcats that came out 3 years prior. (The Camaro is obviously a better track car, but it seems you're more interested in the drag strip.)

It's likely a tune will improve the car, but until we see some more guys with tunes running 1/4 miles it'd be hard to put a number on it.

Well, drag strip for now, at least. We enjoy road trips, and having the M6 would make the drive up to Pikes Peak, for example, more enjoyable. We may be moving to the PNW area soon as well, and I would hate to miss out driving this car up there. I also plan on tracking the car once I get familiar with it.

Apart from that, the car seems to be enjoyable.

[travislambert]

Originally Posted by KyleL

When you say it's likely to improve, are you thinking this is something programmed that can't be overridden, or at the very least, drastically reduced?

Yeah. Anything related to wheel slip, including the target wheel slip 5%-15%, timing adjustments due to wheel slip, etc. is not exposed by HP Tuners and likely never will be. A tuner can make timing adjustments to offset, but it'll never be "right" so to speak.

The torque management cannot be disabled in the E92 ECM either, but it can be tuned where it's no longer a limiting factor.

At the end of the day I believe the ECM will still be holding the car back a little.