[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by 1295/SS

The gap will widen and the Mustang crowd will still whine about the hp advantage.

They seriously have some BS excuse for everything. The Shelby is just an inferior car when it comes to performance. Plain and simple. But they try to excuse that fact by talking about how they aren't natural competitors while trying to justify how poorly it performed.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The ZL1 is 6.0 lb/hp while the GT350R is 7.1 lb/hp. So it just seems you want it both ways. You wanna cry that they aren't natural competitors but then you wanna talk about how well you think the Shelby did. And then you wanna talk about the hp advantage and how you think the ZL1 should have won by a bigger margin despite the fact that the the weight helped offset the extra hp. But then you Mustang guys wanna talk about how the GT350R carries more speed thru the corners and has better handling. But guess what...all of that is why the GT350R is pathetic. Because it is good at only two things...high revs and cornering. But it isn't good enough at both of those areas to win. The ZL1 corners, accelerates, carries enough speed thru the corners, brakes well enough, and has much more power, and puts all of that together well enough to completely obliterate the GT350R. The Shelby is a one-trick pony that isn't good enough at what it is good for to beat the ZL1 which is an overall better performing car. That is why the ZL1 outperforms the GT350R. The Shelby is better at 2 things while the ZL1 is good enough at everything to be overall better. So stop trying to justify the Shelby's pathetic performance.

LOL...you act as if a 1.1lb/hp advantage isn't a big deal....or let's continue to ignore that the 0.39 second advantage could very well be erased had these two been raced at a sea level track. Or the fact that on some tracks, it's likely the GT350R will in all reality be quicker.

And...in 20 years the current GT350R will still be more desirable than the
current ZL1.

Let's face it, not everyone cares about which car is the absolute fastest around tracks that they will never see. You obviously attend regular road coarse and 1/4 track outings each month.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

LOL...you act as if a 1.1lb/hp advantage isn't a big deal....or let's continue to ignore that the 0.39 second advantage could very well be erased had these two been raced at a sea level track. Or the fact that on some tracks, it's likely the GT350R will in all reality be quicker.

And...in 20 years the current GT350R will still be more desirable than the
current ZL1.

Let's face it, not everyone cares about which car is the absolute fastest around tracks that they will never see. You obviously attend regular road coarse and 1/4 track outings each month.

We already know the zl1 is quicker from previous test, so maybe Probst had a bad day with the zl1. It's funny you think the R could be quicker, but we all know the zl1 was quicker. What's also funny, a Grand Touring car beat Fords BEST track car in its own element, the track.

And as far as the 350r being more desirable in 20 years, well I would hope so since only 1500 have been built. It's called rarity. Doh!

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by 13vertss/r's

We already know the zl1 is quicker from previous test, so maybe Probst had a bad day with the zl1. It's funny you think the R could be quicker, but we all know the zl1 was quicker. What's also funny, a Grand Touring car beat Fords BEST track car in its own element, the track.

What I was inferring was that the elevation of the track automatically favors a vehicle with forced induction. Lower the elevation and these two cars would be EXTREMELY close (as if 0.39 seconds wasn't close enough).

And it's not surprising at all that the ZL1 won. It has a fantastic magnetic suspension setup and has an insurmountable HP and torque advantage. As stated by BlaqWhole, the ZL1 has inferior braking and cornering and simply out powers the GT350R. It's "good enough" in the braking and turning elements.

And you all are still pretending this is a model per model comparison.

[NCSD]

This head 2 head test doesn't make alot of sense to me.
Its one thing to say "the handling feels better" and "the sound of the motor is better" if the car is faster, but what does that really mean if the ZL1 beats it at everything. It's like saying...(I know your car is faster, but my mustang sure sounded good when you passed me).If the whole purpose of the GT350R is to be the ultimate mustang at the track, then Im sorry, lap times count. No back seat, carbon fiber wheels, crossplane crank are all things you do when you want to build the fastest car you can. And it still gets beat by a daily drive-able ZL1. Good job Chevy....

Now do the ZL1-1LE head 2 head with the GT350R.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Now its all about hp.

Before it was all about the tires. Don't know how many times I seen the whining and crying. "the z28 wears clown shoes" blah blah blah

Now tires and weight don't matter on a race track. Just the hp.

What one will do to lie to themselves lmao

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

What I was inferring was that the elevation of the track automatically favors a vehicle with forced induction. Lower the elevation and these two cars would be EXTREMELY close (as if 0.39 seconds wasn't close enough).

And it's not surprising at all that the ZL1 won. It has a fantastic magnetic suspension setup and has an insurmountable HP and torque advantage. As stated by BlaqWhole, the ZL1 has inferior braking and cornering and simply out powers the GT350R. It's "good enough" in the braking and turning elements.

And you all are still pretending this is a model per model comparison.

Your really reaching using elevation as a excuse in these newer cars. The 1le got the same time as the R and has 60 less hp at the same elevation. These newer cars know how to adjust for temp and elevation.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Did they pit the 2010 GT500 against the 2010 camaro SS, as they were both the best each manufacturer had to offer?

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Why yes, they did.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevr...ro-comparison/

Originally Posted by 1295/SS

The gap will widen and the Mustang crowd will still whine about the hp advantage.

Interesting history lesson. The 2010 SS was on the GT500's heel with identical weight, 114 HP less and a $13,645 lower MSRP.

Kind of parallels the GT350R. A dedicated track car with a application specific FPC engine and carbon fiber wheels but would just barely get the win on a SS-1LE.

How about the 2017 GT350TP vs SS-1LE? The GT350 has a 71 HP advantage but will fall against the SS.

The GT PP vs LT-1LE...

This was the grand touring ZL1 against Fords best track car. In gen5, the less powerful, lighter track car won

Ford - Doing less with more.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Because it is good at only two things...high revs and cornering.

That's good enough for me.

Truth be told, I could even give up some of those high revs and still be happy. Not like that isn't what I'm doing as it is.


Norm

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

LOL...you act as if a 1.1lb/hp advantage isn't a big deal....or let's continue to ignore that the 0.39 second advantage could very well be erased had these two been raced at a sea level track. Or the fact that on some tracks, it's likely the GT350R will in all reality be quicker.

And...in 20 years the current GT350R will still be more desirable than the
current ZL1.

Let's face it, not everyone cares about which car is the absolute fastest around tracks that they will never see. You obviously attend regular road coarse and 1/4 track outings each month.

And you ignore that the weight, carbon wheels and tires aren't an advantage for the GT350R.

You also continue to ignore that the ZL1 is not a track focused car. Its a jack of all trades. The ZL1 1LE is the Camaro analogue to the GT350R.

Shall we wait and see the how the GT350R fairs against that car?

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

What I was inferring was that the elevation of the track automatically favors a vehicle with forced induction. Lower the elevation and these two cars would be EXTREMELY close (as if 0.39 seconds wasn't close enough).

And it's not surprising at all that the ZL1 won. It has a fantastic magnetic suspension setup and has an insurmountable HP and torque advantage. As stated by BlaqWhole, the ZL1 has inferior braking and cornering and simply out powers the GT350R. It's "good enough" in the braking and turning elements.

And you all are still pretending this is a model per model comparison.

I wouldn't worry about the ZL1's track time, nobody is bringing them to a track and running them. The car has been out for months and not one owner has ventured to a track. Maybe its fear, maybe its the cost, maybe they understand that real track duty will require continued laps for 20-min sessions. Funny thing is when the Z28 came out the cars were hitting the track immediately. IMO the car is better prepared for street/strip action.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

And you ignore that the weight, carbon wheels and tires aren't an advantage for the GT350R.

You also continue to ignore that the ZL1 is not a track focused car. Its a jack of all trades. The ZL1 1LE is the Camaro analogue to the GT350R.

Shall we wait and see the how the GT350R fairs against that car?

As long as the venue includes straights of sufficient length and the more powerful car is at least competent in the corners, it should always win. It's as much a foregone conclusion as pitting a top light-heavyweight boxer who usually wins matches on points up against a full-on heavyweight knockout puncher.

When the venue puts handling on a more equitable basis with acceleration, the outcome could easily be different (and was, in the figure-8).

I actually like Camaros, and might even be driving one had that choice been available in 2007.

What I have less appreciation for is MT's approach to these comparisons. Where the matchups are more like what you'd see at dragstrip street nights, but could never happen in most other forms of motorsport, from autocrossing on up.

The sort of Camaro that would most closely mirror the GT350R would be an SS 1LE with a couple of the more important bits (LS7, wheels & tires) plucked from the 5th gen Z/28 bin. Both cars NA, one has a little more HP, the other a bit more torque. Would Chevy ever put that combination together? Would MT head to head compare them if Chevy did?


Norm

[1295/SS]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I wouldn't worry about the ZL1's track time, nobody is bringing them to a track and running them. The car has been out for months and not one owner has ventured to a track. Maybe its fear, maybe its the cost, maybe they understand that real track duty will require continued laps for 20-min sessions. Funny thing is when the Z28 came out the cars were hitting the track immediately. IMO the car is better prepared for street/strip action.

Are you sure nobody (not one as you put it) has taken their Z to a track? And how would/could you possibly know this?

[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I wouldn't worry about the ZL1's track time, nobody is bringing them to a track and running them. The car has been out for months and not one owner has ventured to a track. Maybe its fear, maybe its the cost, maybe they understand that real track duty will require continued laps for 20-min sessions. Funny thing is when the Z28 came out the cars were hitting the track immediately. IMO the car is better prepared for street/strip action.

I'm not sure if you're serious.. A friend of a guy I know took his ZL1 to COTA and has videos. That's one. How many others do you not know about or have we not heard about?