[J_MaherAMG]

Originally Posted by zipline

This is one of many things that is hard to understand about the GT350R. Suckers are paying over sticker for a car that as you have pointed out will get slaughtered in the market place once the next GT500 is available.

It will probably take a dip in prices, as things usually do. Personally resale or depreciation is not a concern for me and it isn't a pro/con for either car. But there are a few things unique about the 350 that will buffer it against the GT500 IMO. Whether someone likes or dislikes the Voodoo, the facts stand that it is A) the only American FPC that has ever been made, B) the largest FPC V8 ever made and C) the very last naturally aspirated FPC V8 ever made. I'm not saying that those are oh so important, but they are facets none the less that make it stand out as something different and unique, something that cannot be replicated. I would be very surprised if the GT500 doesn't beat the hell out of the R in performance, but it won't have features that make it as unique.

I'm also well aware of the compromises made to make the FPC thing work, doesn't overly bother me, and I happen to love the outcome. Doesn't rev as high or as quickly as a FPC usually does, butttt it does make more torque than almost every other FPC V8 ever made, so there are trade offs.

There is also the historic aspect to consider. I would say some people probably don't care at all, and I am far too young to truly appreciate it, but I like history and the story behind the original GT350 and it's resurrection today I think is pretty cool.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Yup! And all those people who paid all that money over the already more expensive GT350R MSRP probably feel like a bunch of fools.

I understand most people's views on ADM's, I myself paid $5K over here in Canada where the R's MSRP was a hair under $91K (Canadian Peso essentially lol). But, this has existed for decades. What about the classics today that sell for millions? The price of anything reflects market demand and what people are willing to pay for something. People pay wayyyy over sticker for special edition Porsche's and other marquee's all the time. I don't like paying more than sticker any more than the next guy, but whether it is worth it or not is up to the individual, and after owning and driving the car, I don't regret it one bit!

For the price I paid for my R I could have bought a Z06 or Viper for the exact same money, both of which are leagues faster than either the R, ZL1 or whatever comes out next for a GT500. Hell, a Cayman GT4 which I also would have loved are priced in the $140-160K range and higher up here when they are also a 90-110K MSRP car. That GT4 is a lot slower than both the R and ZL1, but do you think those owner's also feel like fools or are upset that there are other, faster cars out there?

You can't win that battle man, you'll spend forever chasing the next big thing and never taking the time to appreciate the car or love the car for what it offers rather than just stats on a sheet that you or I will never be able to replicate.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by unavailablezl1

Look at all of the old 2016 GT350's that are NEW that they can't get out the door. They are going to have to fire sale them to dump them.

Everyone get ready to get one....

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...by+GT350&Log=0

I was looking at this recently too. I like the GT350 quite a bit, but I just think it is over priced for what you get. In doing research it seems most, if not all,of the 2016 GT350's for sale are the Tech Pack cars. Sad to say, but those machines are useless. Ford really screwed the pooch with the Tech Pack cars pre-2017, and they are basically paper weights without a trans cooler fix.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by J_MaherAMG

Hello Ignorant individual

You, along with anyone else who chooses to be arrogant and disrespectful, gets under my skin. I don't feel the need to insult people or their belongings to share my ideas/views. I would say the same thing FYI whether we were talking about cars, business, engineering, photography, whatever. The disrespect and ignorance shown by yourself and others, as well as many on "*my*" side only further separates enthusiasts who are fans of two great cars for no reason.

I don't have "Mustang" buddies. "I got family"... kidding, this isn't a Dodge forum I just have friends. I don't care what they drive, their personalities and character are what is important to me.

I guess if you are 50+ you could call me a "child" considering I only just turned 26. But I think the majority of people would agree that those who resort to personal insults to be far more childish than another calling an individual out for being ignorant.

Originally Posted by J_MaherAMG

And for the record, if you're looking at these vehicles as "performance tools" then certainly the better one for the job is the ZL1, particularly the upcoming 1LE version. But frankly in another year or two it will be outperformed by some other rival, and where does that leave you if you Have to Have the fastest available car?

Do you dump your girlfriend every time you see a more physically attractive woman? Does a job that pays more automatically mean its a "better" job? There is far more to life than objective stats. If you spend it chasing numbers, you'll never, ever win, and miss out on focusing on what really matters. Choosing a car that makes you Happy is far more important IMO, and if it happens to have great numbers as well that is just a bonus. I'd bet my R that 98% of the buying public can't come anywhere near the limits of either of these cars, so unless you are a professional driver why put so much into the limit stats?

I don't care.

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by J_MaherAMG

Hello Ignorant individual

You, along with anyone else who chooses to be arrogant and disrespectful, gets under my skin. I don't feel the need to insult people or their belongings to share my ideas/views. I would say the same thing FYI whether we were talking about cars, business, engineering, photography, whatever. The disrespect and ignorance shown by yourself and others, as well as many on "*my*" side only further separates enthusiasts who are fans of two great cars for no reason.

I don't have "Mustang" buddies. "I got family"... kidding, this isn't a Dodge forum I just have friends. I don't care what they drive, their personalities and character are what is important to me.

I guess if you are 50+ you could call me a "child" considering I only just turned 26. But I think the majority of people would agree that those who resort to personal insults to be far more childish than another calling an individual out for being ignorant.

I have seen so many personal insults on Mustang6g; you are not fooling anyone. We don't do that over here where the Camaro guys can spell and are more intelligent. All they do on Mustang6g is fight each and insult each other over stupid stuff like names of cars they think are dumb and can't them figure out. How intelligent is that?

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by J_MaherAMG

I understand most people's views on ADM's, I myself paid $5K over here in Canada where the R's MSRP was a hair under $91K (Canadian Peso essentially lol). But, this has existed for decades. What about the classics today that sell for millions? The price of anything reflects market demand and what people are willing to pay for something. People pay wayyyy over sticker for special edition Porsche's and other marquee's all the time. I don't like paying more than sticker any more than the next guy, but whether it is worth it or not is up to the individual, and after owning and driving the car, I don't regret it one bit!

For the price I paid for my R I could have bought a Z06 or Viper for the exact same money, both of which are leagues faster than either the R, ZL1 or whatever comes out next for a GT500. Hell, a Cayman GT4 which I also would have loved are priced in the $140-160K range and higher up here when they are also a 90-110K MSRP car. That GT4 is a lot slower than both the R and ZL1, but do you think those owner's also feel like fools or are upset that there are other, faster cars out there?

You can't win that battle man, you'll spend forever chasing the next big thing and never taking the time to appreciate the car or love the car for what it offers rather than just stats on a sheet that you or I will never be able to replicate.

You understand that you gave a dealership $5,000 to allow them to sell you a car right? I mean, they said "sure, we'll sell you this car...but you have to give us $5,000 first" and you said "DEAL". That is what it amounts to. And you do realize that if you and every other person who bought one had simply refused to buy them, then they would have sat until the dealerships started to lose money on them and you all could have forced their hand and made them sell at MSRP right? So don't get mad at me for throwing insults when you should be mad at the dealership who demanded an extra $5,000 for a car. And be mad at yourself for buying it. There are some of you who paid more than $20K over MSRP for that car. So don't sit here getting mad at what I have to say about it. And don't expect me to have respect for someone who willing allows a dealership to take money from them like that. If I were in the market for a GT350R and some dealership marked it up like that, well my pride and common sense would tell me not to give them even a dime of my hard earned money. I would have walked away. That extra $5,000 you paid is exactly how much your dignity was worth.

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

I was looking at this recently too. I like the GT350 quite a bit, but I just think it is over priced for what you get. In doing research it seems most, if not all,of the 2016 GT350's for sale are the Tech Pack cars. Sad to say, but those machines are useless. Ford really screwed the pooch with the Tech Pack cars pre-2017, and they are basically paper weights without a trans cooler fix.

Yes, you are right. Most of the 2016's are Tech Packs. But there a couple or so of R models still left. There is a yellow one that is discounted. I was going to trade my 2016 for a 2017 but they wanted $15k ADM. I hung up the phone.

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by J_MaherAMG

It will probably take a dip in prices, as things usually do. Personally resale or depreciation is not a concern for me and it isn't a pro/con for either car. But there are a few things unique about the 350 that will buffer it against the GT500 IMO. Whether someone likes or dislikes the Voodoo, the facts stand that it is A) the only American FPC that has ever been made, B) the largest FPC V8 ever made and C) the very last naturally aspirated FPC V8 ever made. I'm not saying that those are oh so important, but they are facets none the less that make it stand out as something different and unique, something that cannot be replicated. I would be very surprised if the GT500 doesn't beat the hell out of the R in performance, but it won't have features that make it as unique.

I'm also well aware of the compromises made to make the FPC thing work, doesn't overly bother me, and I happen to love the outcome. Doesn't rev as high or as quickly as a FPC usually does, butttt it does make more torque than almost every other FPC V8 ever made, so there are trade offs.

There is also the historic aspect to consider. I would say some people probably don't care at all, and I am far too young to truly appreciate it, but I like history and the story behind the original GT350 and it's resurrection today I think is pretty cool.



I understand most people's views on ADM's, I myself paid $5K over here in Canada where the R's MSRP was a hair under $91K (Canadian Peso essentially lol). But, this has existed for decades. What about the classics today that sell for millions? The price of anything reflects market demand and what people are willing to pay for something. People pay wayyyy over sticker for special edition Porsche's and other marquee's all the time. I don't like paying more than sticker any more than the next guy, but whether it is worth it or not is up to the individual, and after owning and driving the car, I don't regret it one bit!

For the price I paid for my R I could have bought a Z06 or Viper for the exact same money, both of which are leagues faster than either the R, ZL1 or whatever comes out next for a GT500. Hell, a Cayman GT4 which I also would have loved are priced in the $140-160K range and higher up here when they are also a 90-110K MSRP car. That GT4 is a lot slower than both the R and ZL1, but do you think those owner's also feel like fools or are upset that there are other, faster cars out there?

You can't win that battle man, you'll spend forever chasing the next big thing and never taking the time to appreciate the car or love the car for what it offers rather than just stats on a sheet that you or I will never be able to replicate.

You are mixing cars that sell for MSRP and ADM. Classics of older years has nothing to do with ADM. You are confused.

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

You understand that you gave a dealership $5,000 to allow them to sell you a car right? I mean, they said "sure, we'll sell you this car...but you have to give us $5,000 first" and you said "DEAL". That is what it amounts to. And you do realize that if you and every other person who bought one had simply refused to buy them, then they would have sat until the dealerships started to lose money on them and you all could have forced their hand and made them sell at MSRP right? So don't get mad at me for throwing insults when you should be mad at the dealership who demanded an extra $5,000 for a car. And be mad at yourself for buying it. There are some of you who paid more than $20K over MSRP for that car. So don't sit here getting mad at what I have to say about it. And don't expect me to have respect for someone who willing allows a dealership to take money from them like that. If I were in the market for a GT350R and some dealership marked it up like that, well my pride and common sense would tell me not to give them even a dime of my hard earned money. I would have walked away. That extra $5,000 you paid is exactly how much your dignity was worth.

Exactly. What happens when no one buys into the hype. Prices fall. No one wanted the last few Z/28's. Prices fell. These high prices are all on the consumer; cannot you see that Maher? The last few GT350's and there are a lot, no one wants them. Someone in Canada cannot see the forest because they think there are too many trees in the way.

[J_MaherAMG]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I don't care.

Cool man, but yet I am the child. lol you are a disgraceful "adult". Didn't your Momma ever tell you to keep your mouth shut if you didn't have something nice to say?

Rhetorical question, I know the answer lol

Originally Posted by unavailablezl1

I have seen so many personal insults on Mustang6g; you are not fooling anyone. We don't do that over here where the Camaro guys can spell and are more intelligent.

What? I don't represent that website, nor the community. I spoke about myself. There are times I get heated and I like to debate as much as the next guy, but I do not resort to personal insults, nor do I bash another's property.

There are assholes everywhere, on every forum, they're not limited to a single brand. If you choose to insult people based on what they drive, then congratulations, you're a shitty human being.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

You understand that you gave a dealership $5,000 to allow them to sell you a car right? I mean, they said "sure, we'll sell you this car...but you have to give us $5,000 first" and you said "DEAL". That is what it amounts to. And you do realize that if you and every other person who bought one had simply refused to buy them, then they would have sat until the dealerships started to lose money on them and you all could have forced their hand and made them sell at MSRP right? So don't get mad at me for throwing insults when you should be mad at the dealership who demanded an extra $5,000 for a car. And be mad at yourself for buying it. There are some of you who paid more than $20K over MSRP for that car. So don't sit here getting mad at what I have to say about it. And don't expect me to have respect for someone who willing allows a dealership to take money from them like that. If I were in the market for a GT350R and some dealership marked it up like that, well my pride and common sense would tell me not to give them even a dime of my hard earned money. I would have walked away. That extra $5,000 you paid is exactly how much your dignity was worth.

Yep, well aware. Don't like it anymore than you or the next guy, but with so few coming to Canada (only 71 2016's came here FYI) I felt it was worth it. Sure I could have refused to buy based on principle, but someone else would have bought it, and I'd be sat at home with my pride but without the car that I love.

I didn't allow anyone to take anything. I was willing to pay a certain $, so I chose to buy it. Maybe you could be happy at home for really "teaching that dealer a lesson", but $5000 wasn't worth missing out a very rare car up here that I happen to love. For me it is something I will hang on to for rest of my life until I pass it on to my kids someday, so $5000 or the next 25-30 years of driving enjoyment, what was worth more to me I wonder?

And honestly, if you're That worried about $5000 when buying a $90,000 car, you can't afford the car in the first place. $20K and some of the other markups, I wouldn't have paid either, but I felt the relatively small increase in price was worth it. Sue me.

[J_MaherAMG]

Originally Posted by unavailablezl1

You are mixing cars that sell for MSRP and ADM. Classics of older years has nothing to do with ADM. You are confused.

I understand the difference between MSRP and ADM. Not confused really, people were paying hundreds of thousands over sticker for a 911R, shit like this happens all the time. I don't see as any different when you look at back at even cars that are 10-20 years old that are worth far more now than they were back then. If a car is priced higher than its original MSRP, whether that vehicle is a 2017, a 2005 or a 1967, what does it matter? The asking price is still higher than what the MSRP would indicate the vehicle is "worth", so what is the difference?

Originally Posted by unavailablezl1

Exactly. What happens when no one buys into the hype. Prices fall. No one wanted the last few Z/28's. Prices fell. These high prices are all on the consumer; cannot you see that Maher? The last few GT350's and there are a lot, no one wants them. Someone in Canada cannot see the forest because they think there are too many trees in the way.

I absolutely see that, I've never been a fan of the whole ADM BS. I absolutely know that it is the consumers that cause the prices and the ADM's, and because we keep buying them, they haven't gone away.

GT350's here all sold for MSRP where I am from. We only have 1 dealership of each brand, and they actually still have 1 or 2 2016's left that I think have maybe a 1-2K discount I believe. I wouldn't pay a massive amount over sticker, but where I live we have 15% sales tax on everything we buy, so approx. a 5% increase in the total price of the car in an ADM was worth it to me, considering it will probably be one of the only cars like this that I buy in my lifetime.

My name is Justin btw, Maher is the last name

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by J_MaherAMG

Cool man, but yet I am the child. lol you are a disgraceful "adult". Didn't your Momma ever tell you to keep your mouth shut if you didn't have something nice to say?

Rhetorical question, I know the answer lol



What? I don't represent that website, nor the community. I spoke about myself. There are times I get heated and I like to debate as much as the next guy, but I do not resort to personal insults, nor do I bash another's property.

There are assholes everywhere, on every forum, they're not limited to a single brand. If you choose to insult people based on what they drive, then congratulations, you're a shitty human being.



Yep, well aware. Don't like it anymore than you or the next guy, but with so few coming to Canada (only 71 2016's came here FYI) I felt it was worth it. Sure I could have refused to buy based on principle, but someone else would have bought it, and I'd be sat at home with my pride but without the car that I love.

I didn't allow anyone to take anything. I was willing to pay a certain $, so I chose to buy it. Maybe you could be happy at home for really "teaching that dealer a lesson", but $5000 wasn't worth missing out a very rare car up here that I happen to love. For me it is something I will hang on to for rest of my life until I pass it on to my kids someday, so $5000 or the next 25-30 years of driving enjoyment, what was worth more to me I wonder?

And honestly, if you're That worried about $5000 when buying a $90,000 car, you can't afford the car in the first place. $20K and some of the other markups, I wouldn't have paid either, but I felt the relatively small increase in price was worth it. Sue me.

So, your very first words on your first post on here is an insult. You are two faced

[J_MaherAMG]

And for the record, my local dealership only got allocations for 3 2016 R's, which were all sold, and could not confirm the number of 2017 allocations they would get, which they already had several people with deposits placed waiting in line. I got my R through a member on the Mustang6G site in Nova Scotia, which is essentially "next door" to my province; albeit a 1000mile drive + 7 hour ferry ride away lol

So I didn't have a whole lot of options in terms of trying to find one. I could have went further west trying to search for an MSRP deal, but with such limited numbers here most were selling for far more than what I paid, not to mention it would have meant further to travel + drive back which means more expenses, more time off work, etc.

I was able go over and get the car and be back home between a Friday and following morning, including have the car at a shop for a full Xpel wrap. If I could have gotten it for MSRP elswhere, the additional expenses would have eaten well into the $5000 ADM I paid, not to mention I had to take time off work to go get the car.

[J_MaherAMG]

Originally Posted by unavailablezl1

So, your very first words on your first post on here is an insult. You are two faced

No sir, calling an ignorant individual ignorant isn't an insult if it is true. Is it an insult to say a murderer is a bad person? Nope.

I don't insult or disrespect people as a rule. Ignorant humans I have no qualms about calling them as they are.

Or would you prefer that there be no use of adjectives in our vocabulary? Using them without cause would be an insult, I am simply describing his attitude/behaviour

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by J_MaherAMG

No sir, calling an ignorant individual ignorant isn't an insult if it is true. Is it an insult to say a murderer is a bad person? Nope.

I don't insult or disrespect people as a rule. Ignorant humans I have no qualms about calling them as they are.

Or would you prefer that there be no use of adjectives in our vocabulary? Using them without cause would be an insult, I am simply describing his attitude/behaviour

7 posts and still going at it.