[BlaqWhole]

They also complained that the Camaro is well behaved and drives like a normal car until you get on the throttle. So having street manners and sedan-like driveability but still being a total monster when you need it to all in a 11 second car is a bad thing now? I guess it would have been better if the car fishtailed, lost the rear tires, spun out, and went out of control from a stop just tapping the gas...

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

They also complained that the Camaro is well behaved and drives like a normal car until you get on the throttle. So having street manners and sedan-like driveability but still being a total monster when you need it to all in a 11 second car is a bad thing now? I guess it would have been better if the car fishtailed, lost the rear tires, spun out, and went out of control from a stop just tapping the gas...

Remember how they said the Z28 was raw and spun the tires coming out of every turn? Yeah it lost because it was "undrivable" at the limit, same excuse for the Z06.

So chevy builds a car that's drivable with one hand at the limit and the GT350R (Now raw in comparison) wins because it's more special.


Chevy Trend Who?

[catdog]

Ok so just got back my ZL1 back from getting xpel and paint treatment and haven't driven it for close to 3 weeks during which I was only driving gt350.

All I can say is the ZL1 is sooo much more refined and much nicer for daily driving and what torque I mean you just feather the throttle and car is gone, massive torque all over the place.

Gt350 has much more vibration and although engine sounds sick in sport exhaust mode, the ZL1 is the better car overall period. And the lt4 sounds badass under throttle.

So for a fun drive every now gt350 is great and unique, but the ZL1 is overall amazing and the better car. That head2head was childish, the more and more I think about it. Yes the fact that you can buy gt350 from dealer and it's so quirky is fun but the zl1 seems like a super car on demand that you can daily drive.

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by Diggitydog

The result doesn't match the data. Something is definitely up here.

I'm over it....Almost.

I am in firm belief that driver/actor that are not getting paid to do a show, may drive a little different. Or, if there are two drivers the same day and the guy/girl with the best times gets their name on it. The one that comes in second gets less money, because all drivers get paid, just not to be on a show.

That should get the better times for all cars.

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by catdog

Ok so just got back my ZL1 back from getting xpel and paint treatment and haven't driven it for close to 3 weeks during which I was only driving gt350.

All I can say is the ZL1 is sooo much more refined and much nicer for daily driving and what torque I mean you just feather the throttle and car is gone, massive torque all over the place.

Gt350 has much more vibration and although engine sounds sick in sport exhaust mode, the ZL1 is the better car overall period. And the lt4 sounds badass under throttle.

So for a fun drive every now gt350 is great and unique, but the ZL1 is overall amazing and the better car. That head2head was childish, the more and more I think about it. Yes the fact that you can buy gt350 from dealer and it's so quirky is fun but the zl1 seems like a super car on demand that you can daily drive.

I have to agree on one point for sure. All your points are good, but I should say the concern I agree upon is the vibration in the driveline. Mine was getting progressively worse all the time. Even in the 1st drive times of the car on TV, they mentioned the vibration in the dash area.

After all the crap I went thru, that was the last straw and made me trade, up in this case, and get rid of all of my car troubles.

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

Remember how they said the Z28 was raw and spun the tires coming out of every turn? Yeah it lost because it was "undrivable" at the limit, same excuse for the Z06.

So chevy builds a car that's drivable with one hand at the limit and the GT350R (Now raw in comparison) wins because it's more special.


Chevy Trend Who?

Saying the car is "undriveable" because of too much power is lame. That just tells me that they can't drive. It just takes more time to learn the car. Sure, some cars have a longer learning curve. I learned a long time ago, theoretically, tire slippage is gonna lose. No slippage, WIN!!

[Kurac]

A car that will drop value like a meteor or a car that is universally praised for its driving euphoria....hmmmm, hard decision. Carry on.

[ZL1 1LE]

Originally Posted by Kurac

A car that will drop value like a meteor or a car that is universally praised for its driving euphoria....hmmmm, hard decision. Carry on.

I guess your MSRP deal will make it easier for you, than the ADM buyers, to deal with the objective data from this comparison.

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by Kurac

A car that will drop value like a meteor or a car that is universally praised for its driving euphoria....hmmmm, hard decision. Carry on.

The thing about buying a GT350 or the R, you can drive off of the showroom and be a dumbass and pay ADM and turn around and sell for MSRP and still lose a bunch of money. You have got to be an idiot to pay $30k ADM for a car. I can't believe Ford lets their dealers rip people off and to the public not knowing says, "Wow, what a bargain for a GT350R and it's only $69k!"

For all of the dumbass' that paid ADM, I have some mountain property in New Orleans I can sell them too, since they are such idiots.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by unavailablezl1

The thing about buying a GT350 or the R, you can drive off of the showroom and be a dumbass and pay ADM and turn around and sell for MSRP and still lose a bunch of money. You have got to be an idiot to pay $30k ADM for a car. I can't believe Ford lets their dealers rip people off and to the public not knowing says, "Wow, what a bargain for a GT350R and it's only $69k!"

For all of the dumbass' that paid ADM, I have some mountain property in New Orleans I can sell them too, since they are such idiots.

ADM is all on the dealers. I remember when the 5th gen first came out. Local Chevy dealer wanted 3K over MSRP for the first SS they got. The first Z/28 they got, I think they had a 15K ADM on it.

ADM sucks but I don't think there is much Ford/GM/Fiat can do about it bc besides if they find out dealers are doing it taking away allocations on limited models.

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by shaffe

ADM is all on the dealers. I remember when the 5th gen first came out. Local Chevy dealer wanted 3K over MSRP for the first SS they got. The first Z/28 they got, I think they had a 15K ADM on it.

ADM sucks but I don't think there is much Ford/GM/Fiat can do about it bc besides if they find out dealers are doing it taking away allocations on limited models.

ADM is a known fact in the industry to be sure for the people that just have to have the 1st one of something. It may be some bragging rights or think they are cool, so be it. But 2 months ago, before I bought the ZL1, I called Grapevine Ford and they had an R and regular one and the GT350 was $15k ADM and the R was $30k ADM, still. I said, "no way am I paying that much extra." and hung up.

I am sure some idiot bought it. Makes me wonder when they quit making the GT350 and the GT500 comes out, same thing again I am sure.

I know a lot show MSRP but when you call them, there is an unadvertised ADM.

Case in point:

GT350R: http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...N8VSfGHBNIhSlh

There are 580 GT350's for sale. Way more than the ZL1's

GT350: http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...N8VSfGHBNIhSlh

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by unavailablezl1

ADM is a known fact in the industry to be sure for the people that just have to have the 1st one of something. It may be some bragging rights or think they are cool, so be it. But 2 months ago, before I bought the ZL1, I called Grapevine Ford and they had an R and regular one and the GT350 was $15k ADM and the R was $30k ADM, still. I said, "no way am I paying that much extra." and hung up.

I am sure some idiot bought it. Makes me wonder when they quit making the GT350 and the GT500 comes out, same thing again I am sure.

I know a lot show MSRP but when you call them, there is an unadvertised ADM.

Case in point:

GT350R: http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...N8VSfGHBNIhSlh

There are 580 GT350's for sale. Way more than the ZL1's

GT350: http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...N8VSfGHBNIhSlh

The problem is just what you said...that someone will buy it at that ridiculous markup. But the thing is, whoever the people are that are paying these ridiculous markups, I bet they're ashamed and probably go walking around lying and saying they got it below MSRP. Anyone who gives a dealership that kind of money is a moron. Its like hey let me give you money so I can give you money for this car. And $30 ADM for a GT350R is 50% of the MSRP. I wouldn't pay an extra 50% for a candy bar let alone a vehicle...

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by unavailablezl1

ADM is a known fact in the industry to be sure for the people that just have to have the 1st one of something. It may be some bragging rights or think they are cool, so be it. But 2 months ago, before I bought the ZL1, I called Grapevine Ford and they had an R and regular one and the GT350 was $15k ADM and the R was $30k ADM, still. I said, "no way am I paying that much extra." and hung up.

I am sure some idiot bought it. Makes me wonder when they quit making the GT350 and the GT500 comes out, same thing again I am sure.

I know a lot show MSRP but when you call them, there is an unadvertised ADM.

Case in point:

GT350R: http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...N8VSfGHBNIhSlh

There are 580 GT350's for sale. Way more than the ZL1's

GT350: http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...N8VSfGHBNIhSlh

I am not saying it doesn't exist, your post or at least the way I read it you seemed to make it out to be a Ford only problem and it's Ford's fault. It's the fault of the dealers and like you said bc idiots will pay it.

[kwav8r]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I am not saying it doesn't exist, your post or at least the way I read it you seemed to make it out to be a Ford only problem and it's Ford's fault. It's the fault of the dealers and like you said bc idiots will pay it.

Don't fault the dealer, they're just taking advantage of what the market will bear.

If I had an extra $30K to blow I'd buy a 911 and spend less time in the shop with it, or go to Vegas and party like a rock star....