[WhyUMad1LE]

Easy win as I predicted. Track car vs daily driver you can take to the track.

[unavailablezl1]

For me this "test" was a crock. I have stated this before. These two cars are not close to being the same. The horsepower and especially torque are not even close. Their purposes are two different things. It was just the best that both Ford and GM have to date. It was just for publicity.

The Z28 and the GT350R are the same. No back seat, no A/C, no radio, both N/A engines close to the same HP ratings. The tires at least would have to be the same, not GY tires. Michelin is the best anyway, so that is not a equal comparison.

That will be a real test when GM reemerges with the Z28. And I am sure they will really bring it.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Chassis plays a huge role, but you aren’t pulling 1.07 G’s with a shitty tire.

You do realize treadwear rating is only valid when compared to the same manufacturer don’t you? It’s entirely possible for a 220 treadwear from manufacturer A to wear quicker than a 180 treadwear from manufacturer B.

Until we really know more about how the goodyears compare, I think it should be left off of the excuse list. My guess is, they are far closer in performance than you think.

Granted, but they can't overstate them either. By itself, not really anything but just taking it with the disclaimer about wet driving leads one to believe the Cup 2 is closer to a true DOT slick. That has to give some advantage, but it could be tiny anyway. The GYs are more like an upgraded version of the ones on the SS. And if they were that great, why is there an even better version of the ZL1 1LE?

Like I said, how much difference is the big question, but I'm not subscribing to the idea it's the key factor. Weight and balance is probably the biggest hit on the ZL1.

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

ZL1 is a better car. More comfortable. Faster.

GT350R is very special. And I can totally see them picking. I've said it before, the GT350/R is the only mustang to date I would actually buy. It's a dream car for people that hate ford as much as it is for people who don't (IMO).

That said, the GT350R should be compared to the ZL1 1LE.

GT350 should be compared to the ZL1 non 1LE.

The GT350R has very little to no interior options, rougher and stiffer as noted with 315 SC2s all around with Carbon fiber wheels...That's race car stuff. Now, the ZL1 1LE is the same thing. Bigger/better brakes, bigger better stickier tires, an air foil, stiffer track focused suspension. But it still races at full ZL1 weight. Had they had a 1LE, it would have been a murder in the speed category.

I don't care they selected the GT350R really, in my book, the ZL1 won as I appreciate a comfortable relaxed car that still goes out and beats cars that aren't comfortable and are meant to race.

[ZL1 1LE]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

ZL1 is a better car. More comfortable. Faster.

GT350R is very special. And I can totally see them picking. I've said it before, the GT350/R is the only mustang to date I would actually buy. It's a dream car for people that hate ford as much as it is for people who don't (IMO).

That said, the GT350R should be compared to the ZL1 1LE.

GT350 should be compared to the ZL1 non 1LE.

The GT350R has very little to no interior options, rougher and stiffer as noted with 315 SC2s all around with Carbon fiber wheels...That's race car stuff. Now, the ZL1 1LE is the same thing. Bigger/better brakes, bigger better stickier tires, an air foil, stiffer track focused suspension. But it still races at full ZL1 weight. Had they had a 1LE, it would have been a murder in the speed category.

I don't care they selected the GT350R really, in my book, the ZL1 won as I appreciate a comfortable relaxed car that still goes out and beats cars that aren't comfortable and are meant to race.

Brakes are the same.

[67Builder]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

That said, the GT350R should be compared to the ZL1 1LE.

GT350 should be compared to the ZL1 non 1LE.

To say i disagree with this is to say that democrats are just mildly displeased with Trump.

Comparing the ZL1 and the GT350 (r or otherwise) is silly. They aren't meant to compete with each other. A supercharged touring car vs a naturally aspirated track focused car is just something they did to make fanboys on both sides lose their collective minds. Well done on the part of Motor Trend I say.

The comparisons should be:

ZL1 (or ZL1 1LE) vs Hellcat (or Demon) vs GT500 (last gen til they come with new gen).
Z28 (last gen also til they come with a new one) vs GT350R
SS 1LE vs GT350
SS vs GT

I just wish Chevy would get on the ball and create/release a new Alpha platform Z28 to compete with the GT350R.
It seems that both manufacturers never want to release their halo car near the other guy because the competition would be to direct.
They wait a year or two and then shoot for a faster, better can that the other guy's 2 year old platform. Of course it's going to be better.

The Z28 was a world beater in 2014, 2016 came and the GT350 was the new hot thing for everyone. 2017 brings us the ZL1. An amazing car that does everything great. Ford will have a 2018/19 GT500 that has now had plenty of development time to be able to best the ZL1. Chevy will probably trot out a Z28 in 2019/20 that will trounce the GT350 in every way.

[762CAT]

Facts

1.) GT350R is the Racing version of the Shelby GT350, which would equate to the ZL1 1LE which unfortunately was unavailable for testing and testing the normal 350 vs the ZL1 would be a blowout of enormous proportions.

2.) Regular Camaro ZL1 beat said name 350R in every objective metric that does not involve opinion.

3.) It did so on non R compound tires.

4.) Real world you will never find a 350R under 100k dollars, manual ZL1s can be bought in the 50s.

Everything else is subjective opinions and like the A-holes who write them they all stink. So here is my stinky mess.

Victory for the ZL1 hands down. Motor Trends previous review on the car was that it walked or drove rather on water and it was the greatest fastest creation ever made. This one....it wasn't loud enough.....aaaaand that's about it. If the "regular" version of the ZL1 beats the Race version of the Mustang that says a lot. You can counter point and say the mustang is impressive for hanging with a car with more power but take them to VIR and say that or any track where that power gap will really show itself.

I know a few people with 350s and Hellcats and they all say the 350 is boring to drive, terrible in the low RPM range. Every single one of them recommended against buying one and that once you go supercharged and experience that power everything else will feel less exciting. I tend to agree. Having heard Zl1s in person BTW I'm surprised they thought so ill of the sound. I think they sound fantastic.

For 70k I'm still thinking the ZL1 1LE is going to be the best track car bargain on the planet. For high 50s low 60s the Zl1 is the best Muscle Car/Sports Car/Performance car/whatever you want to call it car buy for the money. I still like my Hellcat better due to personal preference and opinions but it's more money so I cannot say it's a better buy for the money.

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by ZL1 1LE

Brakes are the same.

The GT350R brakes are drilled, so they bite better which does make a small difference. I can tell. They may stop the car 4 feet sooner. That's about it.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

I fully agree. I think everyone in here is just severely let down that the ZL1 didn't absolutely demolish the GT350R given it's horsepower and torque advantage.

I think the ZL1 did fine, for its given purpose. The GT350R is a track focused car. The ZL1 does not sacrifice most things for track performance. The ZL1 is faster in a straight line, faster around a race track, more livable and about as much money. Now, if this was a Z/28, with a major power advantage and as track focused, I would be disappointed.

The GT350R is a fantastic car. I don't know if I would ever buy one if I had the chance. I think the exhaust note is bad and the long term durability of the Voodoo may be an issue.

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

Originally Posted by 67Builder

To say i disagree with this is to say that democrats are just mildly displeased with Trump.

Comparing the ZL1 and the GT350 (r or otherwise) is silly. They aren't meant to compete with each other. A supercharged touring car vs a naturally aspirated track focused car is just something they did to make fanboys on both sides lose their collective minds. Well done on the part of Motor Trend I say.

The comparisons should be:

ZL1 (or ZL1 1LE) vs Hellcat (or Demon) vs GT500 (last gen til they come with new gen).
Z28 (last gen also til they come with a new one) vs GT350R
SS 1LE vs GT350
SS vs GT

I just wish Chevy would get on the ball and create/release a new Alpha platform Z to compete with the GT350.
It seems that both manufacturers never want to release their halo car near the other guy because the competition would be to direct.
They wait a year or two and then shoot for a faster, better can that the other guy's 2 year old platform. Of course it's going to be better.

The Z28 was a world beater in 2014, 2016 came and the GT350 was the new hot thing for everyone. 2017 brings us the ZL1. An amazing car that does everything great. Ford will have a 2018/19 GT500 that has now had plenty of development time to be able to best the ZL1. Chevy will probably trot out a Z28 in 2019/20 that will trounce the GT350 in every way.

I 100% agree with you man. I was just already past that point and saying IF YOU ARE GOING to compare the two cars (GT350/ZL1) then use the appropriate ones. Touring version of the GT350 would be the GT350, and the track version is the GT350R. Touring version of the ZL1 is the ZL1, and the track version is the ZL1 1LE. Track vs Track, the 1LE ZL1 wins in a murder. Tour vs Tour, again the ZL1 wins by avalanches.

Though I agree with you and this isn't to disagree with you but rather disagree with Chevy (Or Ford and Dodge?)...I believe in the fact that Chevy really doesn't build a car that competes with the GT500s and the Hellcat/Demons. They just don't. We don't have enough power, and GM isn't giving it to us. It's almost like they're trying to build a detuned Z06 that doesn't fit in anywhere. Now to some, like me, that's a good thing in a way that you have a car that's superior to the muscly muscle cars (GT500/Hellcat) and have a car that can brush on the sports/super cars out there. But it also sucks that you can't beat the competition's car at all levels.

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

Originally Posted by 762CAT

Facts

1.) GT350R is the Racing version of the Shelby GT350, which would equate to the ZL1 1LE which unfortunately was unavailable for testing and testing the normal 350 vs the ZL1 would be a blowout of enormous proportions.

2.) Regular Camaro ZL1 beat said name 350R in every objective metric that does not involve opinion.

3.) It did so on non R compound tires.

4.) Real world you will never find a 350R under 100k dollars, manual ZL1s can be bought in the 50s.

Everything else is subjective opinions and like the A-holes who write them they all stink. So here is my stinky mess.

Victory for the ZL1 hands down. Motor Trends previous review on the car was that it walked or drove rather on water and it was the greatest fastest creation ever made. This one....it wasn't loud enough.....aaaaand that's about it. If the "regular" version of the ZL1 beats the Race version of the Mustang that says a lot. You can counter point and say the mustang is impressive for hanging with a car with more power but take them to VIR and say that or any track where that power gap will really show itself.

I know a few people with 350s and Hellcats and they all say the 350 is boring to drive, terrible in the low RPM range. Every single one of them recommended against buying one and that once you go supercharged and experience that power everything else will feel less exciting. I tend to agree. Having heard Zl1s in person BTW I'm surprised they thought so ill of the sound. I think they sound fantastic.

For 70k I'm still thinking the ZL1 1LE is going to be the best track car bargain on the planet. For high 50s low 60s the Zl1 is the best Muscle Car/Sports Car/Performance car/whatever you want to call it car buy for the money. I still like my Hellcat better due to personal preference and opinions but it's more money so I cannot say it's a better buy for the money.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by 67Builder

I just wish Chevy would get on the ball and create/release a new Alpha platform Z28 to compete with the GT350R.
It seems that both manufacturers never want to release their halo car near the other guy because the competition would be to direct.
They wait a year or two and then shoot for a faster, better can that the other guy's 2 year old platform. Of course it's going to be better.

The Z28 was a world beater in 2014, 2016 came and the GT350 was the new hot thing for everyone. 2017 brings us the ZL1. An amazing car that does everything great. Ford will have a 2018/19 GT500 that has now had plenty of development time to be able to best the ZL1. Chevy will probably trot out a Z28 in 2019/20 that will trounce the GT350 in every way.

There won't be a Z/28 as long as GM lets Corvette dictate supercharged everything above the base V8. Until GM thinks Camaro is worth at least one of its own engines, Camaro will be forced to use what Corvette wants.

That may work out fine for the base V8, but it doesn't work for anything else. The ZL1 will come up short, and now the Z/28 is left out all together because of team Corvette's decisions.

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by 762CAT

I know a few people with 350s and Hellcats and they all say the 350 is boring to drive, terrible in the low RPM range. Every single one of them recommended against buying one and that once you go supercharged and experience that power everything else will feel less exciting. I tend to agree. Having heard Zl1s in person BTW I'm surprised they thought so ill of the sound. I think they sound fantastic.

For me when I traded in the 2014 Mustang GT Track Pack. I had a small horsepower bump by Ford Racing but about 60lbs torque at 1600pm. When I first drove the GT350 with almost nothing below 4k rpm, I actually thought mine was broken for a second. The GT would spin the tires "forever" when the GT350 would pretty much do almost nothing. I didn't like it. It took awhile to get used to it and like it.

[catdog]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

ZL1 is a better car. More comfortable. Faster.

GT350R is very special. And I can totally see them picking. I've said it before, the GT350/R is the only mustang to date I would actually buy. It's a dream car for people that hate ford as much as it is for people who don't (IMO).

That said, the GT350R should be compared to the ZL1 1LE.

GT350 should be compared to the ZL1 non 1LE.

The GT350R has very little to no interior options, rougher and stiffer as noted with 315 SC2s all around with Carbon fiber wheels...That's race car stuff. Now, the ZL1 1LE is the same thing. Bigger/better brakes, bigger better stickier tires, an air foil, stiffer track focused suspension. But it still races at full ZL1 weight. Had they had a 1LE, it would have been a murder in the speed category.

I don't care they selected the GT350R really, in my book, the ZL1 won as I appreciate a comfortable relaxed car that still goes out and beats cars that aren't comfortable and are meant to race.