[Kenny Camaro]

Born in Detroit, lived in the metro area my entire life. The city has been in decline since the late 50's. I wasn't around back then ,but mt parents were.. don't believe people who say " they know why, or they have the answers", they are biased and are pushing their agenda. Some of it is just the natural cycle of ups and downs, growth and decline, boom and bust. The loss of high paying union jobs in the area, which were the money behind the boom of the 20's till the mid fifties, certainly is some of it. The loss of market share to other manufactures, from 95 % domestic to around fifty. At one time in the 70's, 75,000 hourly people were employed by GM in flint alone. Now that's that's almost the number of the entire nation. People will claim they have the reasons and the causes, don't believe them, they are just taking advantage of the sitituation to push their agenda, nothing more.

[riozlander]

Originally Posted by kmarshall2121

I would have to say you may be describing where you lived, but this does not represent the whole state. I live in San Diego, and couldnt be happier. So, to compare the WHOLE state of California to a failing city in Michigan is insane. Detroit basically failed, in my opinion, because of their lack of industry. The same is happening in my hometown in Iowa, where John Deere was once king, now the whole town relies on small businesses to support the families that still live there. California has many industries, and most are thriving...

I was born ocean side sandiago I remember going to monster truck shows at jack merfy stadium back in the day sandiago has always been cheaper to live in.
I use to live in vista sandiago I've lived all up and down the state from northern California to southern. I could be biased towards where I live.
But you cannot sit there deny that our currant taxes and policy's are BS and have yet to benefit the citizens here.
Take sandiago for example they raised min wage to 11$ an hour and could lose 4000 jobs in one go pushing small businesses out of the highering market
http://libertyunyielding.com/2017/04...staurant-jobs/
I love sandiago I was born there buried most my family there who were in the military there. But this current raise the wage is not working. In less then 6 months my food cost went from 45$ every 2 weeks to 60 a week. Places are already rising price to offset cost of employees. You have to control rent and prices to be affordable for things needed vs raise the pay so sharply.
I dont like seing my home state and people suffer. And I dont like feeling like I'm being forced to move to afford the things id like to have.
I really hope I'm wrong and California does not become Detroit id gladly eat those words.

[riozlander]

[QUOTE=samman11;9731280]

Originally Posted by riozlander

ask and you will receive



/QUOTE]

Poor video. He would have us believe that Detroit fell due to left wing politics and the UAW. I worked for GM and I can tell you that I never saw the figures for pay and benefits that he posted in the video. Sure, blame it on the union worker, whose only "crime" is working for a decent wage in very tough conditions. Wages that were earned through years of hard fought negotiations to end the poverty and basic slave labor that was taking place in car plants prior to the unions stepping in. I'm not saying the unions are perfect, but capitalism left unchecked is not pretty.

I don't have all the answers as to why Detroit looks like it does now. I do know that it's just not as simple as pointing a finger at two entities and saying "That's the bad guy." It appears that somewhat of a "perfect storm" must have occurred. Housing foreclosures, job loss, lack of education and training to supplement the loss of the higher paying automotive plant jobs, etc.

Its not a good video politics wise.....its um super biased
But looking at the costs, it brings up a good point in my eyes.
The wages those folks got payed wow that's alot and looking at the pay they got when out of work wtf. If I was a car company big or small I would of moved over sea for production.

There is alot more to it then That but Detroit I think is a good test lab to study on why things happened they way they did and we could learn from it.

I try to stay neutral in politics. Mostly because I don't understand how or why things or people act like they do.

[samman11]

[QUOTE=riozlander;9732264]

Originally Posted by samman11

Its not a good video politics wise.....its um super biased
But looking at the costs, it brings up a good point in my eyes.
The wages those folks got payed wow that's alot and looking at the pay they got when out of work wtf. If I was a car company big or small I would of moved over sea for production.

There is alot more to it then That but Detroit I think is a good test lab to study on why things happened they way they did and we could learn from it.

I try to stay neutral in politics. Mostly because I don't understand how or why things or people act like they do.

I agree that, as a nation, we must learn from Detroit to ensure that type of downward change never happens again. Good wages was NOT the reason for decline. Quality, in my opinion, played more of a role in people gravitating away from American cars in the 70s. For the same cost, you could get a higher quality car, and with the gas shortage in the 70s, Japan was making small cars.

Let me state that when I worked for GM, I was hired under a new "Tier" system that significantly reduced wages over what an "old" hire was earning. Many were hired like me. Did it reduce the cost of the car? Not at all! The profits simply went into someone's pocket, like golden parachutes for the upper executives.

[WS6ADDICT]

Dewitt Nebraska. 330 jobs lost in a town of 600.........overnight.

[kmarshall2121]

Originally Posted by Liquidity

I beg to differ amigo. You're from Iowa, like most people these days in California, you are one of the millions of migrants that *went west*. Well, I was living in Los Angeles in the 1980s to about 1996. I saw the changes first hand and I befriended many Angelenos or Natives of Los Angeles, many of whom left the state decades ago. California has been suffering for many years since the early 90s. Native Californians I know said the end of opportunity and decent people was around the mid 1980s, however you are trying to be positive and I don't blame you.

well, I am in the construction industry and see many new companies either building or expanding. I bid multi million dollar projects. This to me, 'amigo' means growth...

[kmarshall2121]

Originally Posted by riozlander

I was born ocean side sandiago I remember going to monster truck shows at jack merfy stadium back in the day sandiago has always been cheaper to live in.
I use to live in vista sandiago I've lived all up and down the state from northern California to southern. I could be biased towards where I live.
But you cannot sit there deny that our currant taxes and policy's are BS and have yet to benefit the citizens here.
Take sandiago for example they raised min wage to 11$ an hour and could lose 4000 jobs in one go pushing small businesses out of the highering market
http://libertyunyielding.com/2017/04...staurant-jobs/
I love sandiago I was born there buried most my family there who were in the military there. But this current raise the wage is not working. In less then 6 months my food cost went from 45$ every 2 weeks to 60 a week. Places are already rising price to offset cost of employees. You have to control rent and prices to be affordable for things needed vs raise the pay so sharply.
I dont like seing my home state and people suffer. And I dont like feeling like I'm being forced to move to afford the things id like to have.
I really hope I'm wrong and California does not become Detroit id gladly eat those words.

California is never going to become Detroit. also, the min wage thing is Federal, not just Cali.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by kmarshall2121

California is never going to become Detroit. also, the min wage thing is Federal, not just Cali.

Federal minimum wage is $7.25/hr.

California minimum wage is $10.50 on its way to $15, I think.

[kmarshall2121]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

Federal minimum wage is $7.25/hr.

California minimum wage is $10.50 on its way to $15, I think.

its not only Cali - read this site, state by state...

http://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-a...age-chart.aspx

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by kmarshall2121

its not only Cali - read this site, state by state...

http://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-a...age-chart.aspx

"All the other kids are doing it" is not really a good reason.

Assuming worker productivity does not rise proportionate to wages, high minimum wages simply incentivize companies to use less people. That doesn't help workers as a whole.

We will see a day, probably sooner rather than later, when all fast food ordering is done at a kiosk. Then robots will be developed to cook the food and the entire store will need a staff of maybe two. So that is lost opportunity for tons of people to get a foothold in the job market.

Businesses that can't automate will either cut staff or hope that customers will pay a higher price for whatever it is they are providing. And we know how that charging a higher price thing usually works out.

[Liquidity]

Originally Posted by WS6ADDICT

Dewitt Nebraska. 330 jobs lost in a town of 600.........overnight.

Sad. And nobody seems to even care.

[Liquidity]

Originally Posted by kmarshall2121

well, I am in the construction industry and see many new companies either building or expanding. I bid multi million dollar projects. This to me, 'amigo' means growth...

Maybe you work in the IT industry, Google, Apple, etc; Greedy internet companies employing thousands of third world immigrants, paying much less than what an American deserves. Not fair. All the while Fat Cats like Gates, owners of Google, Apple and Facebook sit back and rake in millions while the rest of America suffers. If you think this is the American Dream then you are a sick person. The system is clearly broken and if you refuse to see this then you are part of the problem.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by Kenny Camaro

Born in Detroit, lived in the metro area my entire life. The city has been in decline since the late 50's. I wasn't around back then ,but mt parents were.. don't believe people who say " they know why, or they have the answers", they are biased and are pushing their agenda. Some of it is just the natural cycle of ups and downs, growth and decline, boom and bust. The loss of high paying union jobs in the area, which were the money behind the boom of the 20's till the mid fifties, certainly is some of it. The loss of market share to other manufactures, from 95 % domestic to around fifty. At one time in the 70's, 75,000 hourly people were employed by GM in flint alone. Now that's that's almost the number of the entire nation. People will claim they have the reasons and the causes, don't believe them, they are just taking advantage of the sitituation to push their agenda, nothing more.

Much of the blame for Detroit''s downfall can be laid at the feet of Coleman Young. Probably the worst mayor in the history of the universe.

[kmarshall2121]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

"All the other kids are doing it" is not really a good reason.

Assuming worker productivity does not rise proportionate to wages, high minimum wages simply incentivize companies to use less people. That doesn't help workers as a whole.

We will see a day, probably sooner rather than later, when all fast food ordering is done at a kiosk. Then robots will be developed to cook the food and the entire store will need a staff of maybe two. So that is lost opportunity for tons of people to get a foothold in the job market.

Businesses that can't automate will either cut staff or hope that customers will pay a higher price for whatever it is they are providing. And we know how that charging a higher price thing usually works out.

Youre the one that singled out California. I was just pointing out the fact California isnt the ONLY state raising MW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy View Post
Federal minimum wage is $7.25/hr.

California minimum wage is $10.50 on its way to $15, I think.