[ScottMZ3]

I've owned 11 BMWs and never owned a single American car (a few Japanese cars though). That is about to change! Going to be placing an order for a '18 ZL1 convertible next week. As nice as BMWs are, the newer ones are just losing their appeal to me. They kind of have a "stale" feeling to me now...more of the same with each new model they release. My wife's 2016 528i is an awesome family car: smooth, quiet, great MPG, roomy, comfortable, etc. So it will continue to do the family duties and I'll enjoy it for what it does so well.

But I want the fun/weekend car I drive to have "soul". BMWs to me are missing that now. The ZL1 to me has real "soul"...a presence that most other cars just can't match. The 2000 M-Coupe I drive now definitely has soul (this is a model produced before BMW sapped so much of its "Ultimate Driving Machine" experience from its cars), but I'm ready to move to something much more modern and with a lot more power. Plus I've never owned a convertible, so I think it will be a blast!

[kwav8r]

Originally Posted by Dethsupp0rt

I currently have a 2015 M3, which I love, but it's about time for a change. I couldn't get past the interior of the gen5 ZL1, but it looks like the gen6 has improved a bit.

I'm not a big fan of all the alcantara, and I saw some photos where the dash area by the passenger had carbon fiber instead, however I don't see that option anywhere.

There's also an option when looking at Truecar for "Carbon Fiber Instrument Panel Molding". I'm guessing neither of these is actually available, so it would have to be done aftermarket?

I'm guessing the build quality is a bit better in the gen6 as well? I remember shutting the door in the gen5 and it sounded like the window was rattling around inside the door, which wasn't exactly confidence inspiring. The big knobs for the vents felt cheap, along with the shift paddles as well.

I'm not expecting a Mercedes, but just something better than it was.

I've also perused all the wheel threads, but didn't see many people switching to 19s. There don't appear to be many tire options for all-season or winters in 20s, so I was thinking 19s might be the way to go if they didn't look too bad.

Otherwise, it's pretty much stock or P4S for summer and Sottozeros for winter, which isn't bad I guess, just spendy since there isn't much competition in those sizes.

Thanks in advance for opinions and thoughts. Right now it's either stick with the Germans and go with the new Audi RS3, or get something a bit more raw and monstrous like the ZL1.

While I don't own one yet (that'll change soon) I can only relate my experience in a lengthy test drive to having driven a Porsche 930 Turbo (Alt Turbo) and an Audi RS8 Wagon.

After test driving an SS (auto) and being "happy" with the power I thought I would give the ZL1 a drive as well. I fully expected the power to be overwhelming and my previous experience with US sports cars left me thinking the handling would be poor/unrefined - I was very wrong. Even though the car I drove was a standard the power was not overwhelming but comfortable. The steering wasn't nearly as unforgiving as the 930 nor as "muted" as the RS8.

The power, though instantaneous when you want it, is kept in check by the eLSD (and my foot once I figured it out). Interior was on par with the Audi though I thought it could be a little more refined (it's a US sports car though, not to be compared to closely with a Porsche interior). Accoutrements are very nice though I still think GM's MyLink system needs a complete redesign (form and function).

Having said all of that here's what you cannot deny. This car, at it's price point, is phenomenal. While I have heard some folks on here refer to the Camaro as the "blue color sports car" this car is right up there with any "white color sports car" (I hate that comparison by the way) - this car is beyond that. Have no doubts, it is a "Super Car" from end to end. This car will hang with nearly anything out there (within reason) and it'll meet or beat a lot of "Super Cars" that don't have a backseat.

Das auto ist WUNDERBAR!! My .02

[kwav8r]

Originally Posted by ScottMZ3

I've owned 11 BMWs and never owned a single American car (a few Japanese cars though). That is about to change! Going to be placing an order for a '18 ZL1 convertible next week. As nice as BMWs are, the newer ones are just losing their appeal to me. They kind of have a "stale" feeling to me now...more of the same with each new model they release. My wife's 2016 528i is an awesome family car: smooth, quiet, great MPG, roomy, comfortable, etc. So it will continue to do the family duties and I'll enjoy it for what it does so well.

But I want the fun/weekend car I drive to have "soul". BMWs to me are missing that now. The ZL1 to me has real "soul"...a presence that most other cars just can't match. The 2000 M-Coupe I drive now definitely has soul (this is a model produced before BMW sapped so much of its "Ultimate Driving Machine" experience from its cars), but I'm ready to move to something much more modern and with a lot more power. Plus I've never owned a convertible, so I think it will be a blast!

Concur. BMW just isn't worth the price tag right now, maintenance costs alone are ridiculous. They need a serious reboot.

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by kwav8r

While I don't own one yet (that'll change soon) I can only relate my experience in a lengthy test drive to having driven a Porsche 930 Turbo (Alt Turbo) and an Audi RS8 Wagon.

After test driving an SS (auto) and being "happy" with the power I thought I would give the ZL1 a drive as well. I fully expected the power to be overwhelming and my previous experience with US sports cars left me thinking the handling would be poor/unrefined - I was very wrong. Even though the car I drove was a standard the power was not overwhelming but comfortable. The steering wasn't nearly as unforgiving as the 930 nor as "muted" as the RS8.

The power, though instantaneous when you want it, is kept in check by the eLSD (and my foot once I figured it out). Interior was on par with the Audi though I thought it could be a little more refined (it's a US sports car though, not to be compared to closely with a Porsche interior). Accoutrements are very nice though I still think GM's MyLink system needs a complete redesign (form and function).

Having said all of that here's what you cannot deny. This car, at it's price point, is phenomenal. While I have heard some folks on here refer to the Camaro as the "blue color sports car" this car is right up there with any "white color sports car" (I hate that comparison by the way) - this car is beyond that. Have no doubts, it is a "Super Car" from end to end. This car will hang with nearly anything out there (within reason) and it'll meet or beat a lot of "Super Cars" that don't have a backseat.

Das auto ist WUNDERBAR!! My .02

I didn't know it had a back seat. I thought that was a big open air storage box.

[kwav8r]

Originally Posted by unavailablezl1

I didn't know it had a back seat. I thought that was a big open air storage box.

it's for little people...

[cleoent]

There are plenty of former BMW owners here, and quite a few former M owners (me too, E60 M5).

BMW has lost the crowd that cares about driving, most evident in the F80. BMW sales are also sky rocketing, so I dont see them changing course any time soon. RIP fun BMWs.

Chevy doing a great job picking up the slack.

[docw]

Another former M car (m5,m6) owner here. Just wanted to chime in and say that while I sure do love the German cars in my stable, there's just something about the zl1 that I haven't been able to get over since I test drove a colleague's. I'm guessing its the sort of "heart and soul" that we don't really get in these high performance German cars, but that the ZL1 possesses in excess. Sometimes it's worth sacrificing a full leather interior for fun. I'm now anxiously awaiting the day that I can pick up my '18 ZL1 (if I can even wait that long without scooping up a '17)!

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by docw

Another former M car (m5,m6) owner here. Just wanted to chime in and say that while I sure do love the German cars in my stable, there's just something about the zl1 that I haven't been able to get over since I test drove a colleague's. I'm guessing its the sort of "heart and soul" that we don't really get in these high performance German cars, but that the ZL1 possesses in excess. Sometimes it's worth sacrificing a full leather interior for fun. I'm now anxiously awaiting the day that I can pick up my '18 ZL1 (if I can even wait that long without scooping up a '17)!

There are a lot to scoop...

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...List=CAM%7CZL1

[Dethsupp0rt]

Originally Posted by MoreSpeed

I find the ZL1 to be a good daily driver even with the 20" Wheels and 650 HP. It is very tame if you want it to be and a beast if you don't. Still I did a 650 Mile road trip and the seats were fabulous for the distance. The car is very compliant with the bumps. It does not beat you up at all. Heated seats, cooled seats, heated steering wheel, decent entertainment center all help.

Yeah, it's definitely better than the gen5 in that respect, as there's no way I could've lived with that interior, no offense to anyone.

Originally Posted by MoreSpeed

Ps. The only reason I am going with 19" is the greater selection in race rubber and in the winter, tires that can stand the cold.

That's pretty much the only reason I'd want the 19s as well. I could have a set of summers and a set of "performance" all-seasons for the cold months, which is about 6 months out of the year here.

[Dethsupp0rt]

Originally Posted by popsmk

I can weigh in from an Audi perspective. I just came from a B8.5 Stage 2 Audi S4 making around 385 AWHP. Loved that car until the end - put over 111k miles on it in less than 5 years, tuned since 19k miles. Absolute rock star of a daily driver. I had heartache moving from a lineage of German autos to an American pony car...until I saw the ZL1.

This car is an order of magnitude different than anything the German manufacturers are doing at this price point. I look at an Audi RS7 Performance making 605hp from a TT V8 and just think that for $65k less I can have a car that would rival its performance in multiple domains.

The German brands abandoned their mid-level enthusiast base, Uncle Sam stepped in with some very attractive options. I couldn't wait for them to come back to me. Love the one you're with.

Good to hear, thanks!

Yeah, I test drove an S4 before I bought my M3. I loved the interior in the S4, and the motor was great, it was just a bit big. I even think my M3 is a little big now, even though it's light.

Right now, I'm really considering the RS3. I'm a sedan guy anyway, and it's the right size, has a great sounding motor, AWD for bad weather, and should be plenty fast. Plus, they already have a tune in Europe for the TT RS (same motor) that put down 500 whp with just an ECU tune.

The interior isn't at the S4 level, but it's not bad.

It's also the same price as the ZL1 for the most part, so I'm a bit torn. Right now, it's hard to order either one, but I have some time.

[Dethsupp0rt]

Originally Posted by donaldp

I came from a 2016 M3 that I had for eight months to my 2017 ZL1 M6. Simply put, the M3 was soulless and the ZL1 ignites the soul.

I like the M3 a lot. Really the only things I don't like are the exhaust note and putting power down is a bit tricky.

I had my software updated recently, and it's a bit better at the latter now, and feels more buttoned down than when I first got it (early '15 build).

[Dethsupp0rt]

Originally Posted by unavailablezl1

After having stepped into and back out of the "M shoes" and then last July into a GT350, the M cannot keep up with the GT350, close though. I thought I had arrived with the GT350. I thought it was the best car I could get. Not so. Since trading it in for the ZL1 and driving both cars the same places over the same bumps and curves, the ZL1 is faster more planted and the rear end is less twitchy. I did not think it was possible. I live in Grapevine where it is hilly by Grapevine Lake and lots of twisty roads. Where I took a curve at high rate of speed, the ZL1 can take it at 10 mph faster. I took both cars at least 10 times apiece, so it is very repeatable.

You will NEVER say I am sorry I bought the ZL1!

My first car was a Mustang, so it has a special place for me. However, I can't really get into the new ones.

I'd really like the GT500 (or whatever they're going to call it) to give the ZL1 a run, but I doubt it will.

I do like the Mustang interior better, and they've went more techy for '18, which is nice, but I doubt the performance will match the Camaro.

[Dethsupp0rt]

Originally Posted by Glen e

I worked for the Germans (Porsche and BMW) for 30 years on the corporate side. Kinda nice having a 911 and 6 series as my company demo. My take is all you might miss is the build quality of the Germans, it's just a tighter spec than GM. But I'd take a zl1 all day long as the fun/cash outlay value is more realistic. The Germans are out of their minds on some of their high-end stuff, in regards to where they price them, IMO.

I agree, but like you said, the build quality is typically better. I did not like the gen5 at all, and the gen2 CTS-Vs that I drove with 40-50K on them weren't great either. Kind of left a bad taste in my mouth for GM in general.

As I said before, I really don't expect a Mercedes interior at this price point, just something fairly nice, which I believe it is. Hard to say until they get some miles on them, but I did see C&D's "long term" test with the gen6 SS @ 30K had no issues other than some oil consumption.

At this price point, you're certainly not going to match the performance, that's for sure. The SS, Corvette, and ZL1 are certainly great bang for the buck in that dept.

[Dethsupp0rt]

Originally Posted by Diggitydog

Excellent thread here. Really enjoy the real world comparisons without bashing.

Simply I am beyond pleased with my ZL1. It is an amazing car, then talk price and it's unbelievable!!

Indeed. I appreciate all the opinions and insight.

As the title of the thread states, I'm a bit of a German car snob. However, I have an open mind, which is why I'm here. Y'all seem like a great bunch.