[Sven59]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I stopped differentiating because it always tends to end up in some kind of debate or this or that or one of the 500 different dictionary definitions. We all know what he is talking about so lets leave it at that. If any of my answers are not included in anyone's personal definition then simply pretend it isn't there.



Straight line - The 5th Gen Z28 was just as fast in a straight line as the 5th Gen ZL1 was. And between the two, the Z28 is the Top Dog Camaro. So when/if it is released for the 6th Gen, it'll be either just as fast or faster in a straight line. Same with the S197 GT500 vs the 5th Gen ZL1...the GT500 was faster. And it is just as fast as the 17 ZL1. When/if it is released for the S550, I would put my money that Ford will make it better in a straight line than the current ZL1. Each car I listed for straight line was faster than the 5th Gen ZL1 and the only one the 6th Gen is faster than is the 5th Gen Z28.

Cornering - Again, I think we all know what cars OP is referring to. If you don't wanna include those then you can ignore them from my post. I included them because they are part of the competition. Around here you're gonna run into Vipers, ZR1s, Z06s, GTRs, etc. They're gonna step up. And saying "oh, you're not a Muscle Car, you're a Super Car killing Sports Car" is gonna make you look like a pansy. You either run with them and do your best or you run away. But you will be challenged by them. And the 6th Gen ZL1 is up there but not the best.

Value - You can find deals and rebates out there. It isn't uncommon to get a 2LZ Z06 or 3LZ Z06 brand new for around $80K or a little more. I know a few people who have done so. You gotta know what to look for and when to buy and take advantage of the special offers. But regardless, no matter what you think of the price it'll cost, I still said the ZL1 is the best deal so there was no reason to disagree with me unless you're just nitpicking. And again, I did state that no vehicle would be able to beat the ZL1 at everything and be within $10K of the price and that the ones that can will all be 2 seaters.

I think we all know and can agree that the ZL1 is the best deal. But it can and will be beat in specific areas by other vehicles. The Hellcat and GT500 (when it arrives) will beat it in the quarter mile. The ZR1 (when it arrives), Z28 (when it arrives), Z06, and GTR will out-corner it. Nothing will be a better value tho.

Mucsle Cars as in the only real three to survive the era and stay true to their form and function but improve on with advanced technology.

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[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Straight line - The 5th Gen Z28 was just as fast in a straight line as the 5th Gen ZL1 was. And between the two, the Z28 is the Top Dog Camaro. So when/if it is released for the 6th Gen, it'll be either just as fast or faster in a straight line. Same with the S197 GT500 vs the 5th Gen ZL1...the GT500 was faster. And it is just as fast as the 17 ZL1. When/if it is released for the S550, I would put my money that Ford will make it better in a straight line than the current ZL1. Each car I listed for straight line was faster than the 5th Gen ZL1 and the only one the 6th Gen is faster than is the 5th Gen Z28.

Cornering - Again, I think we all know what cars OP is referring to. If you don't wanna include those then you can ignore them from my post. I included them because they are part of the competition. Around here you're gonna run into Vipers, ZR1s, Z06s, GTRs, etc. They're gonna step up. And saying "oh, you're not a Muscle Car, you're a Super Car killing Sports Car" is gonna make you look like a pansy. You either run with them and do your best or you run away. But you will be challenged by them. And the 6th Gen ZL1 is up there but not the best.

Value - You can find deals and rebates out there. It isn't uncommon to get a 2LZ Z06 or 3LZ Z06 brand new for around $80K or a little more. I know a few people who have done so. You gotta know what to look for and when to buy and take advantage of the special offers. But regardless, no matter what you think of the price it'll cost, I still said the ZL1 is the best deal so there was no reason to disagree with me unless you're just nitpicking. And again, I did state that no vehicle would be able to beat the ZL1 at everything and be within $10K of the price and that the ones that can will all be 2 seaters.

I think we all know and can agree that the ZL1 is the best deal. But it can and will be beat in specific areas by other vehicles. The Hellcat and GT500 (when it arrives) will beat it in the quarter mile. The ZR1 (when it arrives), Z28 (when it arrives), Z06, and GTR will out-corner it. Nothing will be a better value tho.

Ok...

The 5th Gen Z28 is not close in straight line speed to the 5th gen ZL1, it's down 75 HP and has a lot of downforce that makes the car smack a wall north of 100-110. The Z28 was a purpose built, rough, uncomfortable car compared to the ZL1 which is GM's top dog Camaro...You really lost me there.

6th Gen ZL1 is hairs behind the Z06 which is just as fast as the Viper TA (We're talking straight line here still). A 2017 GTR has 565 to 600 and is 3900 pounds, which means the 6th ZL1 in Auto form to compete against the auto/paddle manual in the GTR, should beat it in straight line speed.

And the S197 GT500 (550 HP I think?) is definitely not going to beat the 2017 ZL1 in any dimension. Not sure where you were going there?

The 6th ZL1 should give any of those cars a hard run for their money on the track save for the Viper ACR? I mean it'll probably be a bit slower than the Vettes/Viper/GTR but...

I'm done trying to go through and analyze/refute this post(s) so, have a good one. OP, in the muscle car stand point, which is what you asked for, the ZL1 is currently the best car all around.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

Ok...

The 5th Gen Z28 is not close in straight line speed to the 5th gen ZL1, it's down 75 HP and has a lot of downforce that makes the car smack a wall north of 100-110. The Z28 was a purpose built, rough, uncomfortable car compared to the ZL1 which is GM's top dog Camaro...You really lost me there.

Ok, the Z/28 IS the top dog Camaro. Look it up. It didn't have as much hp/tq as the ZL1 in the 5th Gen, but it still ran the same quarter miles times AND it beat the ZL1 in circle tracks. Look up that info.

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

Ok...6th Gen ZL1 is hairs behind the Z06 which is just as fast as the Viper TA (We're talking straight line here still). A 2017 GTR has 565 to 600 and is 3900 pounds, which means the 6th ZL1 in Auto form to compete against the auto/paddle manual in the GTR, should beat it in straight line speed.

Hairs or not, it is still slower. Like Vin said, you can win by an inch or a mile. Your "hairs" comment just proves that what I said is correct, it IS slower. Thanks.

And the S197 GT500 from 2013-2014 is 663 hp. Look it up. In 2013 they used a 5.8 liter block, a 2.3 liter blower, and a compression ratio of 9.0:1. Those cars do a low 11 sec quarter mile and have a solid axle and weigh less than the 17 ZL1. They are faster in a straight line.

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

Ok...The 6th ZL1 should give any of those cars a hard run for their money on the track save for the Viper ACR? I mean it'll probably be a bit slower than the Vettes/Viper/GTR but...

I'm done trying to go through and analyze/refute this post(s) so, have a good one. OP, in the muscle car stand point, which is what you asked for, the ZL1 is currently the best car all around.

And I did say "IT IS EITHER TIED WITH OR SLIGHTLY BEHIND" in straight line and in cornering against the cars I mentioned. So WTF are you arguing with me about? You just said the same thing basically. It won't out-corner a Viper, Z06, ZR1, or GTR. It'll hang with them but it will not win. Look at the weight, dimensions, and suspension of those cars. So if you're mad that I said a 17 ZL1 will lose to those cars instead of being impressed that a $70K Camaro can at least keep up with $90K cars then yea you need to be gone. You're arguing over nothing.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Sven59

Mucsle Cars as in the only real three to survive the era and stay true to their form and function but improve on with advanced technology.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Ok between the Mustang, Challenger, Camaro, and Charger...

The ZL1 and GT350R are the best in cornering. I'm not sure which is better than the other. In the 5th Gen tho the Z/28 out-cornered the ZL1 and will probably do so again in the 6th Gen when/if it comes out.

The Hellcats are better in a straight line but that much is obvious. And in a roll-on I think the Hellcat would have an advantage as well. The 13-14 GT500 is just slightly faster than the 6th Gen ZL1 and it blew away the 5th Gen ZL1. More than likely Ford will make the upcoming GT500 a straight line monster and it'll probably be faster than the 6th Gen ZL1. Time will tell.

Overall value between the Big 3, I'd say the ZL1 is the better deal when factoring in performance vs price vs options vs value. It does everything very VERY well while the other cars excel in specific areas but aren't as good in other areas. So if you take all that info and put it together, then I think that the ZL1 is the better car overall.