[mbar]

I think I like my SS even more this morning

http://jalopnik.com/shelby-gt350-mus...ing-1793541621

[devnull]

Wow...

I spent awhile trying to get a GT350 at sticker (because this guy don't pay over sticker ever). Couldn't make it happen. I went with this SS 1LE and can't believe how great it is.

Oddly, one of the many Ford dealers that were "criminally inflating prices", called me yesterday and offered me a GT350 at sticker. I told him that he waited too long and his car (at sticker) is 50% more than mine while mine is the better car... NO THANKS.

His response was that he couldn't argue with that...

and directly related to gearboxes --> http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=487834

LOVE THIS CAR!

[Expunge]

Originally Posted by khell86

You can't assume that they combined the track pack components to remedy the overheating issue as well. It could have been done simply due to the lack of takers on a base GT350 as well as a TP GT350. As far as I know, most GT350's were ordered with the Tech package (probably more dealer oriented than buyer).

Lack of takers on a base GT350 as well as a TP GT350? They combined for 70% of the GT350 sales!

And absolutely I can assume they combined the track components. It's stated in Ford's supplemental to the owners manual that it is needed for track days.

Originally Posted by Ford GT350 Supplemental Manual Page 28
Operating at High Speeds and on Track
Days
Your vehicle is capable of sustained high
speeds and track day driving if equipped
with powertrain coolers (Track, R model).

Note: Obey all traffic laws and only operate
your vehicle at locations designed to do so
safely.
Before operating your vehicle at high
speeds, follow these guidelines.
• Verify your tires have the correct tire
pressures (see Tires in this
supplement).
• Inspect wheels and tires for wear and
damage. Replace any damaged wheels
or tires.
• Do not operate your vehicle at high
speeds with more than two passengers
or while carrying cargo.
• For sustained high speeds or track day
use with a Base or Tech model, we
recommend that transmission and
differential coolers are added. Your
vehicle has electronic controls to
reduce power and/or limit RPM to
reduce powertrain temperatures if
required.

But assumptions don't win in court, and that is why the lawyers need to ask Ford why they made the changes in the GT350 from year one to year two. That to me is damning evidence/arguement that Ford found there was an issue and addressed it for the year two model GT350 but chose to ignore and not make amends to year one GT350 drivers.

[SuperSound]

Ford's response about the base and tech package cars being "built for the track"

[Mountain]

One could argue that it was a customer's decision, but one could also argue that Ford forced that decision based on how they limited their options.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Expunge

Lack of takers on a base GT350 as well as a TP GT350? They combined for 70% of the GT350 sales!

And absolutely I can assume they combined the track components. It's stated in Ford's supplemental to the owners manual that it is needed for track days.
But assumptions don't win in court, and that is why the lawyers need to ask Ford why they made the changes in the GT350 from year one to year two. That to me is damning evidence/arguement that Ford found there was an issue and addressed it for the year two model GT350 but chose to ignore and not make amends to year one GT350 drivers.

The lawyers need to look no further than the forums where Mustang owners ridicule Chevy's track focus because 99% of the buyers don't care. Street use only.

It was clear enough that was Ford's intent with the base/tech cars. No coolers. None. Zero. Like the GTPP that isn't "really" a track car because its a "performance package" for the "street"

Still stupid but very typical for Ford. Products that can perform and those that look the part.

[Zeke.Malvo]

Originally Posted by Expunge

Lack of takers on a base GT350 as well as a TP GT350? They combined for 70% of the GT350 sales!

And absolutely I can assume they combined the track components. It's stated in Ford's supplemental to the owners manual that it is needed for track days.
But assumptions don't win in court, and that is why the lawyers need to ask Ford why they made the changes in the GT350 from year one to year two. That to me is damning evidence/arguement that Ford found there was an issue and addressed it for the year two model GT350 but chose to ignore and not make amends to year one GT350 drivers.

LOL

That is not damming evidence. Even if you keep saying it, it doesn't make it true. That is Ford offering the track package more widely since it was so successful. It was very obvious from the beginning that the Tech Pack cars were the street cars, and the Track Pack cars are the track capable versions. People pretend that they had no idea, but it's been obvious from the beginning. People complain that there was no data available... then why did you buy the car??

[Expunge]

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

LOL

That is not damming evidence. Even if you keep saying it, it doesn't make it true. That is Ford offering the track package more widely since it was so successful.

Less than 30% of total sales was successful? err ok. LOL

[hotlap]

One quick search to find a post dated 11-17-14 questioning Ford's decision to offer a street only version of the GT350. Lawyers will find this

Originally Posted by Mgizzle

....

And since when is the GT350 a street car with amnities and not a dedicated track car? Should ve not called it a 350 without going hardcore like the z/28. For Gods sake no dry sump? No track tires? No CCM? No crazy but integrated aero? Nice car but feels like a missed opportunity. As always Ford blows the bank on the motor and again, track coolers optional. Come on Ford.... gt350 with optional track coolers?!?!?!? Sounds like Ford is looking for some car guys soon.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Expunge

Less than 30% of total sales was successful? err ok. LOL

It could be extremely successful if they were expecting 10% take rate. Even more successful if they had expected a 3% rate. If they were hoping for 40% it would be a mild disappointment, and 30% could be considered an outright failure if they were planning selling 2/3 of cars with a track pack. On top of that, if the sales mix shifted from where Ford expected it to be towards cars with higher margins, they're going to be pretty happy with some doing 'worse' than expected.

Of course, if total sales are above the targeted amount, they can hit a lower percentage for one or two packages and they would still rightfully be considered successful. 25% of 6500 is bigger than 30% of 5000. Conversely, if total sales are below expectations, one package having a better share isn't all that much comfort (35% of 3500 is less than 30% of 5000)

And don't forget ... there were 4 ways to get a GT350. Base, track, tech, and R. On average, each has to be 25% of sales. Sure, the R was intentionally limited (as I understand it) to something like 10% of sales. That means that the other 3 would have to average 30%, certainly no more than 33%.





Point is, without a lot more information (that only Ford knows) the percentage sales for each package is pretty much meaningless.

[crysalis_01]

Sorry guys, mispost.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by hotlap

One quick search to find a post dated 11-17-14 questioning Ford's decision to offer a street only version of the GT350. Lawyers will find this

What? Some guy on the internet says that track cars should come with more than what the GT350 has? Who cares. I can also find posts where people say the Z/28 should have come with less than it did. Its just someones opinion, on web forum, for a competitors car. I more or less agree with Mgizzle, but that doesn't make it evidence. Its just an opinion, and you can find opinions on the internet either for or against pretty much anything. Doesn't mean they're worth anything in court.

Unless it comes from Fords website, or a press release, or their brochure, or advertisements, or instructions to dealers on how to sell the car, or ANYTHING from Ford Motor Company, its worthless. Anything that says, or at least implies, that the base and/or tech package GT350s were fully track capable from the factory will be useful.

Magazines are not Ford. Car forums are not Ford. Fords dealers are not Ford.

If you are going to blame Ford for misleading buyers, you need to show how they deliberately lied to those buyers for the purpose of making them believe their car was more track capable than it was. Likewise, if you are saying that they included the track package because people complained their base/tech cars were not track capable ... get a hold of the memos or emails that say so. But it has to come from Ford.

[crysalis_01]

There's a tread covering this.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=488669

As to the lawsuit, DGthe3 pretty much hits the nail on the head.

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Difference between the GT350 & the ZL1 (or the SS for that mater): GM intended the regular car to be track capable, knowing that most would never use it as such.

Ford did NOT intend the base GT350 to be track capable, knowing that most people would never take it to a track. However, they knew that some would track it and therefore offered a track package with those specific buyers in mind.

The people suing Ford knowingly bought the car without getting the track package and then proceeded to take it to a track anyways. That is on them.

Think of it like this: on pickup trucks, there exist towing packages that can increase the tow rating of the truck by several thousand pounds. Whose fault is it when someone takes a half ton truck that isn't so equipped, hooks up a 12,000 lb trailer (instead of the 8500 lbs they should have), and cooks the transmission or causes some other failure. The manufacturer for not giving every single truck the maximum capacity, or the owner for exceeding the known capabilities of his truck?

Or what about suing because your ass gets cold in the winter and your car didn't come with heated leather seats, only basic cloth ones. Sure, you could have ticked the option box and gotten the upgrade but when you ordered you had no idea that you were ever going want that capability. The manufacturer knew the car would get cold in the winter, but they knowingly sold cars without heated seats. How dare they!

In my opinion, both of those scenarios make just as much sense as suing because your non-track pack GT350 was not track capable. How much more obvious does it need to be? Put it in the owners manual? Oh, right they pretty much did:
Quote:

https://owner.ford.com/tools/account...tang&year=2016

So, they outright say that the GT350 needs coolers for track days and sustained high speed driving (coolers that come with the track pack and R model). And, they warn that it will go into limp mode if it starts to overheat.

Sounds like none of the folks suing bothered to spend a couple minutes reading their manual.

[ron scubadiver]

Regardless of what is in a supplement to the owner's manual, Ford advertised the car as track ready.