[camaroalltheway]

Here is BMW's take on the death of the sports car:

“The sports car market is roughly half of what it used to be,” Ian Robertson, BMW’s head of sales, said in an interview at the manufacturer’s headquarters in Munich. “Post-2008, it just collapsed. I’m not so sure it’ll ever fully recover.”

Speaking to*Automotive News, Robertson noted that SUVs and crossovers have replaced the sports car’s function as a status symbol, while emerging markets tended to gravitate towards large sedans that one can be driven in.
While those of us who love driving will scoff at the notion that a CUV could ever replace a sports car as the most desirable automobile, market data has*shown that the CUV is the most desirable*body style not just in North America, but in many emerging markets – in both locales, it serves as a symbol of affluence and high status, despite what we may consider to be inferior attributes vis a vis a passenger car.
The other factor is that driving conditions have changed. Increased congestion, urbanization and a demonization of speeding (backed by harsh, if not draconian penalties) has made the notion of a sports car an outmoded one for many people. Even the latest 991 Porsche 911 GT3 has abandoned the manual transmission. And while Porsche claims this was done in the name of technological advancement, let’s not fool ourselves: it was a careful, calculated move designed to appeal to the*poseur who wants the GT3 because of its racing heritage, despite never intending to take it on track, much less above 60 mph.


Some of the comments......

* The average buyer is older, and buyers less willing to put up with sports-car compromises.
* CUVs are way more capable than they used to be, and certainly more capable than sports cars from the last several decades.
* Younger buyers’ have been pretty much hollowed out by the last few jobless recoveries. A hugely expensive depreciating asset is not high on the priority list when you’re already eyeball-deep in debt and working a string of unstable contract-only jobs
* Heck, the whole middle-class has been hollowed out; that means that sports cars—discretionary at best—are now the purveyance of people who can afford second- or third-car toys. Those people aren’t going to buy something plebian

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...orts-car-dead/

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by VCSRT

According to Mustang6, expect no more than a $500-$1000 increase....

I'm guessing the '18 GT's starting MSRP will be between $35,322 and $36,758 + dest. of course.

An increase of $2677-$4113 over the '17's $32,645.

But. . . I'm a realist.

[Xbrentx]

they just stopped a promotion on 2016 chllanger hellcats for 64 grand plus taxes lic, frieght etc with exchange practically free for our friend's across the border! Didn't even realize it was on, ended yesterday 20 percent off!707hp regular price 80000 plus everything. similar to Camaro might have helped a bit got me!

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by IOMike

Between the election and protests I cancelled Facebook.

My quality of life has increased significantly.

Anyone find it odd that Ford is making the Mustang into a Mustamaro if the Mustang is selling so well? Just about every change they are making to the Mustang is making it more like the Camaro, the front end especially.

Given the sales of the Camaro, I see the 7th gen as being a bit more revolutionary as far as styling.

Virtually every change they are doing is trickling down from the GT350. The magneride, lower hood sight lines, active exhaust etc. all were from the 2015 GT350. This is a pretty common occurrence in the mustang world, and happens with each generation.

As for MSRP, a $500-$1000 base price bump is to be expected (at least for the GT).

[newmoon]

Down to a 195 car differance between the new Camaro vs the 9-yro Challenger. This is way beyond well its winter excuse. Problem is the same as it was when the 6th Gen was first introduced. Despite having all of the positive press in the likes of Motor Trend, Car & Driver, etc, as well as the superior performance people just don't care for this new Camaro. There just isn't any excitement with these roll outs. Chevy is building cars that Editors love but the public doesn't. Now here comes the refreshed 2018 Mustang with more power, upgraded suspension, and most likely still a lower cost.

Look for huge incentives on the 17s here very soon as this is terrible news for Chevy.

[COmaro]

Originally Posted by camaroalltheway

Here is BMW's take on the death of the sports car:

“The sports car market is roughly half of what it used to be,” Ian Robertson, BMW’s head of sales, said in an interview at the manufacturer’s headquarters in Munich. “Post-2008, it just collapsed. I’m not so sure it’ll ever fully recover.”

Speaking to*Automotive News, Robertson noted that SUVs and crossovers have replaced the sports car’s function as a status symbol, while emerging markets tended to gravitate towards large sedans that one can be driven in.
While those of us who love driving will scoff at the notion that a CUV could ever replace a sports car as the most desirable automobile, market data has*shown that the CUV is the most desirable*body style not just in North America, but in many emerging markets – in both locales, it serves as a symbol of affluence and high status, despite what we may consider to be inferior attributes vis a vis a passenger car.
The other factor is that driving conditions have changed. Increased congestion, urbanization and a demonization of speeding (backed by harsh, if not draconian penalties) has made the notion of a sports car an outmoded one for many people. Even the latest 991 Porsche 911 GT3 has abandoned the manual transmission. And while Porsche claims this was done in the name of technological advancement, let’s not fool ourselves: it was a careful, calculated move designed to appeal to the*poseur who wants the GT3 because of its racing heritage, despite never intending to take it on track, much less above 60 mph.


Some of the comments......

* The average buyer is older, and buyers less willing to put up with sports-car compromises.
* CUVs are way more capable than they used to be, and certainly more capable than sports cars from the last several decades.
* Younger buyers’ have been pretty much hollowed out by the last few jobless recoveries. A hugely expensive depreciating asset is not high on the priority list when you’re already eyeball-deep in debt and working a string of unstable contract-only jobs
* Heck, the whole middle-class has been hollowed out; that means that sports cars—discretionary at best—are now the purveyance of people who can afford second- or third-car toys. Those people aren’t going to buy something plebian

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...orts-car-dead/

This post sums it up perfectly.

The bottom line is that, unless a manufacturer is happy with a really limited niche and its lower sales numbers, cars have to have more practicality, "utility", built into them.

I had discussion about this with a guy at work yesterday. Mid-30's, two kids. He showed up with a brand new Golf R. He had looked my son's over and decided to go test drive one. He traded his beloved S2000 to get it.

He said his three major requirements were room for two car seats, AWD, and fun to drive. Obviously a pony car wasn't going to work. I asked him if he had looked at an ATS AWD and he didn't even know what it was. Keep in mind a Golf R is $40K, so you would think there would be some cross shopping going on there. On the other hand, holy hell, an ATS AWD "Premium Luxury" model, which is what you would have to get to match the performance and interior of a Golf R, starts at $47K.

GM has totally missed the market, again.

[AZCamaroFan]

sports cars don't sell well? suv's are popular ?

the news from 1999 is just catching up to some.

[m666etal]

Originally Posted by camaroalltheway

Here is BMW's take on the death of the sports car:

“The sports car market is roughly half of what it used to be,” Ian Robertson, BMW’s head of sales, said in an interview at the manufacturer’s headquarters in Munich. “Post-2008, it just collapsed. I’m not so sure it’ll ever fully recover.”

Speaking to*Automotive News, Robertson noted that SUVs and crossovers have replaced the sports car’s function as a status symbol, while emerging markets tended to gravitate towards large sedans that one can be driven in.
While those of us who love driving will scoff at the notion that a CUV could ever replace a sports car as the most desirable automobile, market data has*shown that the CUV is the most desirable*body style not just in North America, but in many emerging markets – in both locales, it serves as a symbol of affluence and high status, despite what we may consider to be inferior attributes vis a vis a passenger car.
The other factor is that driving conditions have changed. Increased congestion, urbanization and a demonization of speeding (backed by harsh, if not draconian penalties) has made the notion of a sports car an outmoded one for many people. Even the latest 991 Porsche 911 GT3 has abandoned the manual transmission. And while Porsche claims this was done in the name of technological advancement, let’s not fool ourselves: it was a careful, calculated move designed to appeal to the*poseur who wants the GT3 because of its racing heritage, despite never intending to take it on track, much less above 60 mph.


Some of the comments......

* The average buyer is older, and buyers less willing to put up with sports-car compromises.
* CUVs are way more capable than they used to be, and certainly more capable than sports cars from the last several decades.
* Younger buyers’ have been pretty much hollowed out by the last few jobless recoveries. A hugely expensive depreciating asset is not high on the priority list when you’re already eyeball-deep in debt and working a string of unstable contract-only jobs
* Heck, the whole middle-class has been hollowed out; that means that sports cars—discretionary at best—are now the purveyance of people who can afford second- or third-car toys. Those people aren’t going to buy something plebian

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...orts-car-dead/

Unfortunately that's a fact. If tomorrow I have to sell one of my cars, it would with a heavy heart have to be the Camaro :(

[ForgedReality]

SUVs are gross. They're basically rebranded minivans, and the same people buy them. No thanks. Fewer of those please. >_<

[zeekle]

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

Which competition is eating the Camaros, Mustangs, and Challengers alive? The only real comparable sports coupes are the Genesis Coupe, 350Z, BRZ, FRS, and you can probably even throw in the Mini Cooper and BMW 2 series. I don't think any of those outsell the Camaros, Mustangs, and Challengers by any significant margin, if at all.

Genesis Coupe - Cancelled

Nissan Z - rumors of this year may be the last year. I think they sold less than 8k last year (yeah the whole year) in the US. Design is really long in the tooth.

BRZ/FRS not sure of the numbers here but they are a different animal than the other cars. I would put them in the Miata class of cars. Not fast at all just look a little sporty and on the low end of price.

[IOMike]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Virtually every change they are doing is trickling down from the GT350. The magneride, lower hood sight lines, active exhaust etc. all were from the 2015 GT350. This is a pretty common occurrence in the mustang world, and happens with each generation.

As for MSRP, a $500-$1000 base price bump is to be expected (at least for the GT).

All this stuff was Camaro first. Magneride was developed by GM after all, with Delphi (which was a division of...GM). Active exhaust has been on the Camaro for a while too.

It's good that they aren't resting, but even the controversial front end gas Camaro written all over it. Triangle vents with horizontal led on the top? Sounds familiar.

[m666etal]

Originally Posted by zeekle

Genesis Coupe - Cancelled

Nissan Z - rumors of this year may be the last year. I think they sold less than 8k last year (yeah the whole year) in the US. Design is really long in the tooth.

BRZ/FRS not sure of the numbers here but they are a different animal than the other cars. I would put them in the Miata class of cars. Not fast at all just look a little sporty and on the low end of price.

Yeah, lot of rumors about the 370z being discontinued. Genesis was out. Although heard some rumors they may have a replacement under Hyundai's new Genesis brand.

The Subaru WRX is one car that is very high in demand among car enthusiasts. I am just surprised the WRX hatchback still has so many buyers even after it's been discontinued. Also the Focus ST.

[COmaro]

Originally Posted by m666etal

Yeah, lot of rumors about the 370z being discontinued. Genesis was out. Although heard some rumors they may have a replacement under Hyundai's new Genesis brand.

The Subaru WRX is one car that is very high in demand among car enthusiasts. I am just surprised the WRX hatchback still has so many buyers even after it's been discontinued. Also the Focus ST.

Used WRX hatchbacks get crazy money in Colorado. Go to craigslist for Denver and look for WRX hatch. $20K for a 2011 WRX hatch with 90,000 miles! There are hardly any for sale because they disappear as soon as they are posted.

Focus ST sells way more than it should. Focus RS is impossible to get - my son put his name on a waiting list for one and then just gave up and bought a Golf R. They sell a lot of Golf R and GTIs here.

People want to be able to actually *use* a car, not just drive it. That's why SUV/CUV have taken over. If a car has a formula of speed, handling *and* utility, it flies out the door.

Chevy needs to breathe on the Cruze Hatch. Put the generic 2.0L turbo in that thing with a decent suspension and it will sell even without AWD, but AWD would make it sell huge.

[m666etal]

Originally Posted by COmaro

Used WRX hatchbacks get crazy money in Colorado. Go to craigslist for Denver and look for WRX hatch. $20K for a 2011 WRX hatch with 90,000 miles! There are hardly any for sale because they disappear as soon as they are posted.

Focus ST sells way more than it should. Focus RS is impossible to get - my son put his name on a waiting list for one and then just gave up and bought a Golf R. They sell a lot of Golf R and GTIs here.

People want to be able to actually *use* a car, not just drive it. That's why SUV/CUV have taken over. If a car has a formula of speed, handling *and* utility, it flies out the door.

Chevy needs to breathe on the Cruze Hatch. Put the generic 2.0L turbo in that thing with a decent suspension and it will sell even without AWD, but AWD would make it sell huge.

Add the new Civic Si and Civic Type R. They will dominate the market.