[cwebster]

Originally Posted by JeffFox

CWebster I really enjoyed your post. I have never been to a dragstrip and found your post and many of the replies very informative. Thanks for posting.

Also wondering what you mean by dialed out "I thought I'd dialed most of that out. All I remember was a chirp off the launch after the first 3 or 4 runs. There might have been more during the sifts. I'll go back and review the videos anyway. I've got a lot to review and analyze before my next visit to the track.

Good. I'm happy to hear that other novice racers are tuning in and asking questions. Thank you.

I was referring to the 2017 ZL1 Custom Launch Control settings. It allows me to tell the computer what RPM and how much wheel spin to allow during launch. It helps control wheel spin and engine RPM during the launch to 1) provide more traction, and 2) prevent engine bogging. There's a trade-off, at least with street tires. Too much wheel spin and you don't go anywhere. Too little wheel spin and the engine bogs down (lower RPM) to the point where there isn't enough torque to get up to speed quickly. Without Launch Control you have to manually find the sweet spot by varying the throttle position (gas pedal) and engaging the clutch at just the right point so you maximize thrust (speed) in that first 60 feet.

--Cal

[cwebster]

Originally Posted by 396ssrat

The HC likely dead hooks more consistently due to it's weight. The ZL1 has excellent road track suspension as is apparent by the "Ring" times but is most likely compromised at the drag strip due to it's overall suspension which isn't really designed for drag strip use. A great comparison would be to check out the Copo Camaro which is set up solely for the drag strip... and it does that very very well.
Many sanctioning bodies have special classes for drag radial tired cars. That's a crazy fast class of cars.

Your point is well-taken. I was reading about the COPO Camaro a few days ago. It's amazing all the work they're putting into developing the next model, based on the 6th Gen platform.

Chevrolet: Camaro Conquers the Quarter-Mile (2016-10-31)

Drag Race Development
The Camaro SS Drag Race Development Program was created to develop performance parts for 2016+ Camaro models. A test vehicle was built to mimic the typical stair-step enhancements many amateur racers make with their production Camaro SS models, including swapping the differential for a numerically higher ratio and adding horsepower-building components such as a cam-and-heads package to push the SS’s LT1 engine to more than 530 horsepower — and about 600 horsepower with a power adder.
...
The best performance to date includes:

60-foot time of 1.425 seconds
Eighth-mile time of 6.764 seconds at 100.85 mph
Quarter-mile time of 10.685 seconds at 125.73 mph
...
To support the greater horsepower and channel it to the ground durably, the engineers borrowed some heavy-duty, proven parts from the Gen 6 Camaro ZL1 including the half-shafts and prop shaft
...
Additionally, the test car was fitted with Chevrolet Performance air induction and exhaust systems, as well as a “small” brake system that features small-diameter brake rotors that fit inside the test car’s 16-inch rear racing wheels and slicks.

While the production Camaro SS features 20-inch wheels, optimal traction on the drag strip is achieved with racing slicks that feature taller sidewalls. They wrinkle slightly at launch as the slicks bite the starting line, reducing the chance for traction-killing tire spin. Smaller-diameter racing wheels typically don’t fit over large-diameter production brake rotors.

[cwebster]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

I'm really not so sure that slicks are gentler on your drivetrain...There's no way. The shock and wheel hop is not going to be as hard on your car as it is on your ET...

Slicks in general hook way way harder than a DR, you can probably dump it at 5500 RPM with a stock ZL1 and not spin, and I've seen it done with cars sub 700 WHP...Do you realize the stress that is on that rear end, driveline, and clutch, knowing that those tires aren't going to slip? The car is going to take the full punishment from 650/650 HP/TQ. At least with a drag radial you have a little less traction (normally), there is no way a DR will ever out hook a slick.

My vote would definitely be get a 18" Wheel and put a Mickey ET Street S/S on it, you'll hook as hard as you need. And my opinion is that there's no way a slick is easier on your drivetrain than a DR.

Hmm... I guess I'll have to think a little more about this because drive train stress was one of the main reasons I was looking at slicks. It just seems logical that wrinkling the sidewalls is an indication that the tire is absorbing more of the stress of a dead-hook and releasing it more gradually. If a DR dead-hooks there is less energy being absorbed by the sidewalls, going on what I'm hearing in this thread.

I've also found information indicating that the drive components are built to withstand a lot of stress. The COPO Camaro, purpose-built for the drag strip, is using "proven parts from the Gen 6 Camaro ZL1 including the half-shafts and prop shaft".

Chevrolet: Camaro Conquers the Quarter-Mile (2016-10-31)

Of course, there's probably going to be less wrinkling with the shorter sidewalls on the 17" rims I'm probably going to have to use with my 14.37" rear rotors.

--Cal

[Mr. Wyndham]

Anything that's more sticky than OE tire will increase strain on the drivetrain. Regardless of the sidewall deformation...I have to believe they engineered for this...but there is no doubt that there's more stress.

Some weaker-axled cars tend to see snapping axles with DRs, all factory power...as evidence...

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

Yeah I just talked to some friends of mine that have 8 seconds cars on slicks. They all said that you're way more likely to break stuff/wear stuff down faster with a slick than a drag radial, especially a 18 or 20" drag radial. We also think that a 17" or 18" slick is WAY over kill for a 550 WHP (Approximately the stock HP number of 17 ZL1). Like I said, an 18" with a ET Street SS DR would be all the hook you could handle, probably all the way up to 700 WHP.

Now CWebster, if you want to run a slick, then you can.

[396ssrat]

Originally Posted by DFW1LE

What do you guys think about wheel hop and drive train shock with DR vs slicks? I have not used slicks since the 60s, and never used Drs, but I suspect slicks will have less shock on the drive train and be less prone to wheel hop.

I have used Hoosiers on prior road course cars and found them to be excellent. Back in the 60s when I was straight line racing, it was M&H wrinkle walls.

A Drag Radial WILL hook harder than a slick when the chassis is set up properly. Drag strips are prepped especially for a Drag Radial racing however, on a marginal track the slick will recover where a DR likely won't. Also the DR has less rolling resistance than does a slick so the mph will be higher at the stripe. Tire shake is detrimental to your chassis and can break stuff so rather than to have tire shake a slick would serve you better. You have to play with tire pressure for maximum traction as well as what rpm you launch at. These factors are where seat time becomes your friend. There are some damn fast cars running on puny 8.5" Drag Radials. I have a friend who races that class in a Vette and his 1/8 mile ET is around 5 seconds flat (That's a very high 7 second 1/4 mile). That's with a first gen sbc and a bit of N2o.

[ParisTNDude]

Originally Posted by detltu

I'm in the same boat as OP. Not as much interested in going faster as getting better. After taking the car to the track I can see why people switch to DRs quickly. It just doesn't make sense for me as drag racing is such a small part of what i do with my car. Rather have another set of track tires/wheels than slicks.

I had the same thoughts as you that as infrequently as I made it to the drag strip, my OEM tires were good enough. In some of my first drag strip runs with my OEM tires, I had one run with a 1.777 60 foot time and a 12.08 ET. That in my estimation is drag radial grip...the car dead hooked and my method was simply holding the brake and slamming the pedal to the floor at the appropriate time.

Since then and warmer temperatures this past summer, I found that wheel spin was beginning to be a problem. I also hated the thought of ruining my expensive run-flats. So, after a little research, I purchased a set of 18 inch C6 diameter and offset TRW Nurburgring wheels and Mickey Thompson drag radials. Now, my car consistently runs 1.8XX 60 foot times. Never had the right air to see if I could better my ETs but will try it this spring. These wheels are 10.5 lbs lighter each and 21 pounds less weight is worth it.

You can see my post with pictures at: http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=460118

[IneedAZ]

Had they offered the COPO with Vin numbers i would have gone that route over the ZL1. They are Badass! I don't have the patience for some shop to build be a copo clone. But to have one of those on the street would be sweet!

[ParisTNDude]

Originally Posted by IneedAZ

Had they offered the COPO with Vin numbers i would have gone that route over the ZL1. They are Badass! I don't have the patience for some shop to build be a copo clone. But to have one of those on the street would be sweet!

Someone went through the process to make a COPO street legal? Here's the video at 1:46.

[17CamaroZL1]

Originally Posted by cwebster

Hmm... I guess I'll have to think a little more about this because drive train stress was one of the main reasons I was looking at slicks. It just seems logical that wrinkling the sidewalls is an indication that the tire is absorbing more of the stress of a dead-hook and releasing it more gradually. If a DR dead-hooks there is less energy being absorbed by the sidewalls, going on what I'm hearing in this thread.

I've also found information indicating that the drive components are built to withstand a lot of stress. The COPO Camaro, purpose-built for the drag strip, is using "proven parts from the Gen 6 Camaro ZL1 including the half-shafts and prop shaft".

Chevrolet: Camaro Conquers the Quarter-Mile (2016-10-31)

Of course, there's probably going to be less wrinkling with the shorter sidewalls on the 17" rims I'm probably going to have to use with my 14.37" rear rotors.

--Cal

I talked to my dad a little during lunch and he has a 20" set of wheels that he's going to put Mickey Thompson ET Street SS tires on for the street. He's currently running MT ET Street Pros on a 15" wheel at the track. They are basically a slick with little lines here and there that go from tread depth to nothing. I guess the more they wear, the shorter the lines will get. The sidewalls wrinkle and they will dead hook with the right air pressure, launch, and track prep. He can get a 1.5 60' with his manual Mustang that pushes over 650 hp and 600 lb/ft to the tires. He said he will probably try the MT Pro Bracket which is a new radial slick they've come out with, but only comes in a 15".

[DFW1LE]

Originally Posted by 396ssrat

A Drag Radial WILL hook harder than a slick when the chassis is set up properly. Drag strips are prepped especially for a Drag Radial racing however, on a marginal track the slick will recover where a DR likely won't. Also the DR has less rolling resistance than does a slick so the mph will be higher at the stripe. Tire shake is detrimental to your chassis and can break stuff so rather than to have tire shake a slick would serve you better. You have to play with tire pressure for maximum traction as well as what rpm you launch at. These factors are where seat time becomes your friend. There are some damn fast cars running on puny 8.5" Drag Radials. I have a friend who races that class in a Vette and his 1/8 mile ET is around 5 seconds flat (That's a very high 7 second 1/4 mile). That's with a first gen sbc and a bit of N2o.

Thanks for that explanation. By the way, do you have any pics of your Chevelle. I had a 67 built by Motion Performance back in the day. Still miss that car.

[wnta1ss]

What about stability? What happens when you put bias-ply slicks on the back of a car that has radial tires on the front, and go 125mph?

[396ssrat]

Originally Posted by DFW1LE

Thanks for that explanation. By the way, do you have any pics of your Chevelle. I had a 67 built by Motion Performance back in the day. Still miss that car.

Here ya go. Not to jack this thread....Sorry

[396ssrat]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

What about stability? What happens when you put bias-ply slicks on the back of a car that has radial tires on the front, and go 125mph?

I've done it without any issues, been 132+ with last engine and stable as a rock but they do have radial slicks available for those who want them. I can't fit them.
They say it isn't suggested though. Your question is a good valid question.