[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

The 2015 GT350 had dual mode exhaust



Golly, I didn’t realize the SS had all an digital instrument cluster.



It's already on the EB mustang.



Already on the GT350



When is the SS getting the 10 speed?



And this is a bad thing?

It’s going to be an interesting year…smart ass.

Yeah it's digital I own one.

Ok copied by ford.

So from GM Corvette to Camaro to 350 to gt. It's a 4th generation copycat. Dual mode on Camaro before 350. MRC on corvette for years same with dual mode. The EB isn't an na v8 with DI. So what.

Zl1 has 10 speed before mustang. Don't know if SS gets it. Wouldn't doubt it. GM helped them build it.

It will never be as interesting a year as the beating the Camaro gave the mustang the past two years. A beating like that is stuff of legend. Stuff like that hasn't happened since we paddled that ass with the ls1.

The new musmaro should do well. It's got everything from GM besides the motor. Hopefully the price stays down so they can keep selling the cheaper models to women and rentals by the bushel.

[Ian SS]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

They're also updating the 5.0 with dual injection (DI/PI) and other changes which will not only result in more power but better fuel economy.

They're also updating the manual transmission and adding in the 10 speed automatic.

It's not just suspension and appearance tweaks.

Well that is good, maybe now they won't be slower than a V6 1LE.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by Ian@W

The 1LE matches or beats a GT350 on a track....so you're saying the new GT PP is going to be faster than a GT350?

Says who? There has yet to be a head to head matching the 1le vs the non R gt350. There has yet to be same day, same driver data. In all reality, it's most likely a wheel and tire swap for the base GT350 to get near the R...tires play a HUGE roll here.

Keep in mind too that if the GT PP is getting the new Michelin PS4 tires, you can bet your ass the GT350 will be getting them as well.

In other words, I would fully expect a slight bump in performance on the GT350.

Is the GTPP going to be faster? Probably not, but there is a good chance it's going to be nipping at the heels of the 1le.

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by SS2017

And what have you psychically seen? I do autocross and track events with both my cars, have been doing that a very long time, at all the events I go to the Boss' pretty much always seem to run better. Especially on tracks with longer straights as they are quicker there too. Even guys who went from a Boss to a GTPP have commented on the SCCA forums they went quicker more consistently in their Boss. Plus, if the old GTPP was faster than the Boss, why would Ford say the new one should beat it? Wouldn't that then have been common sense if the old one did too?

Same here: track days, autocross and following other racer's blogs, back when I was a huge Mustang fan.

I will agree that the BOSS is a little better at autocross. On the track, I can see that diminish. Not only have I been on a track with a Boss following me in my previous Mustang (2012 GT with very few modifications), but I've also heard of other fellow drivers that had an opportunity to drive a Boss and then also a '15 GT PP on the same track, saying the '15 is either just as fast or a bit faster. Even the guys at Vorshlag confirmed this.

[Ian SS]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Says who? There has yet to be a head to head matching the 1le vs the non R gt350. There has yet to be same day, same driver data. In all reality, it's most likely a wheel and tire swap for the base GT350 to get near the R...tires play a HUGE roll here.

Keep in mind too that if the GT PP is getting the new Michelin PS4 tires, you can bet your ass the GT350 will be getting them as well.

In other words, I would fully expect a slight bump in performance on the GT350.

Is the GTPP going to be faster? Probably not, but there is a good chance it's going to be nipping at the heels of the 1le.

All you did was match my speculation with more speculation...

The 350R and 1LE were 3 seconds apart on the lightning lap. I would imagine that is the difference the carbon fiber wheels and Sport Cup 2 tires make from the non-R to the R. It would be reasonable to assume the 1LE and GT350 would probably have similar performance then, no?

You could make the same case and swap to Sport Cup 2s on the 1LE and have a different animal as well.....

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by Ian@W

The 1LE matches or beats a GT350 on a track....so you're saying the new GT PP is going to be faster than a GT350?

Originally Posted by Ian@W

All you did was match my speculation with more speculation...

The 350R and 1LE were 3 seconds apart on the lightning lap. I would imagine that is the difference the carbon fiber wheels and Sport Cup 2 tires make from the non-R to the R. It would be reasonable to assume the 1LE and GT350 would probably have similar performance then, no?

You could make the same case and swap to Sport Cup 2s on the 1LE and have a different animal as well.....

Isn’t that what we are all doing…speculating. It’s fun as hell, and I love arguing on it.

In the end, none of us know jack shit about what the performance is going to be.

It’s funny though, the GT PP will have a very similar horsepower to weight ratio of the 1LE. It will have a similar suspension, an improved chassis and will wear superior tires. It’s reasonable to assume it perform very close to the 1lE. The real question will be, how much exactly will this performance pack cost in comparison to the 1LE option.

[SS2017]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Isn’t that what we are all doing…speculating. It’s fun as hell, and I love arguing on it.

In the end, none of us know jack shit about what the performance is going to be.

It’s funny though, the GT PP will have a very similar horsepower to weight ratio of the 1LE. It will have a similar suspension, an improved chassis and will wear superior tires. It’s reasonable to assume it perform very close to the 1lE. The real question will be, how much exactly will this performance pack cost in comparison to the 1LE option.

GTPP2 looks to have narrower, soon to be replaced Michelins to me.

Plus no eLSD, PP2 will still lag well behind SS 1LE. I think it will narrow the gap maybe 50%. Like if it was behind 3 seconds on a certain track, it will be behind 1.5 seconds or so...

[Ian SS]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Isn’t that what we are all doing…speculating. It’s fun as hell, and I love arguing on it.

In the end, none of us know jack shit about what the performance is going to be.

It’s funny though, the GT PP will have a very similar horsepower to weight ratio of the 1LE. It will have a similar suspension, an improved chassis and will wear superior tires. It’s reasonable to assume it perform very close to the 1lE. The real question will be, how much exactly will this performance pack cost in comparison to the 1LE option.

We'll see. Currently the S550 trails the V6 1LE. A testament to how good the alpha platform is, or just how much the S500 needs help?

I want the 18 Mustang to perform well, as it will push GM. But I don't think they are going to match the V8 1LE.

[SS2017]

Originally Posted by Klier

Ok, now one serious question. U drive them both. WHich one looks better?
And how does the camaro look in person compared to photos? What are the main differences between the real camaro and the camaro on pics?

I've commented on this before. My previous cars were a '13 GT, and 2008 Z51.
The Mustangs biggest issue with looks is the car looks nose heavy, like the back of the car is scaled down to 85%. I do like the direct on back view, front is okay, side profile my least favorite by far. The new Camaro looks MUCH better in person. It comes off as smaller, sleeker, more angry (especially from the front). The front of the Camaro, especially if you get the splitter, looks ten fold better then the Mustang to me. Side profile is better proportioned too. The tail lights are very meh, I hate the regular SS wing, and will be swapping mine to a 1le blade asap. Overall in person, i like the Camaro more. My wife prefers the Mustang...cant complain about either, as both have been very reliable. Only thing i hate about the Mustang is the transmission. The Camaros Tremec is much, much better.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by SS2017

I've commented on this before. My previous cars were a '13 GT, and 2008 Z51.
The Mustangs biggest issue with looks is the car looks nose heavy, like the back of the car is scaled down to 85%. I do like the direct on back view, front is okay, side profile my least favorite by far. The new Camaro looks MUCH better in person. It comes off as smaller, sleeker, more angry (especially from the front). The front of the Camaro, especially if you get the splitter, looks ten fold better then the Mustang to me. Side profile is better proportioned too. The tail lights are very meh, I hate the regular SS wing, and will be swapping mine to a 1le blade asap. Overall in person, i like the Camaro more. My wife prefers the Mustang...cant complain about either, as both have been very reliable. Only thing i hate about the Mustang is the transmission. The Camaros Tremec is much, much better.

This echos my thoughts of both cars perfectly.

Mustang is a fine looking car. They catch my eye from time to time...no doubt.

But when I compare, the only angle I prefer the Mustang is from straight on back. Otherwise I prefer the Camaro a bit more from every other angle. When I start doing more mods, the back angle will be improved.

I can't resist, but awfully funny when someone claims the looks of one car being better than the other as "truth" when anyone with half a brain knows its all subjective. But he's banned now so....

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by SS2017

GTPP2 looks to have narrower, soon to be replaced Michelins to me.

Plus no eLSD, PP2 will still lag well behind SS 1LE. I think it will narrow the gap maybe 50%. Like if it was behind 3 seconds on a certain track, it will be behind 1.5 seconds or so...

The Michelins are the same size as the current performance pack.

While the eLSD seems to be a fantastic option, I’m curious exactly what it does for lap times. I would think that given a pro-driver, not much. For the rest of us, it may be significant…who knows?

Originally Posted by Ian@W

We'll see. Currently the S550 trails the V6 1LE. A testament to how good the alpha platform is, or just how much the S500 needs help?

I want the 18 Mustang to perform well, as it will push GM. But I don't think they are going to match the V8 1LE.

I’ve argued it before, the testing between the S550 and the V61LE was done over a year apart by arguably different drivers. My gut tells me the 15-17 GT PP is going to be quite a bit quicker on most tracks than the V6. It (mustang) is also most likely more difficult to drive at or near it’s limits.

On small tracks, anything goes…even the ecoboost can perform damn well.

Ford really doesn’t “need” the GT upgrades to match the 1LE. They just need to get it close and bump sales for the next 3 years before they release the new platform.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

This echos my thoughts of both cars perfectly.

Mustang is a fine looking car. They catch my eye from time to time...no doubt.

But when I compare, the only angle I prefer the Mustang is from straight on back. Otherwise I prefer the Camaro a bit more from every other angle. When I start doing more mods, the back angle will be improved.

I can't resist, but awfully funny when someone claims the looks of one car being better than the other as "truth" when anyone with half a brain knows its all subjective. But he's banned now so....

Anyone that thinks either one of these cars are hideous is fooling themselves. They are both fine looking vehicles.

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Says who? There has yet to be a head to head matching the 1le vs the non R gt350. There has yet to be same day, same driver data. In all reality, it's most likely a wheel and tire swap for the base GT350 to get near the R...tires play a HUGE roll here.

The vast majority of the difference in performance between the GT350R and regular GT350 is the carbon fiber wheels, which are crazy expensive, not the tires (although they do make a significant difference). AND, you can't compare the regular GT350 with a carbon fiber wheel upgrade to a 1LE without the same upgrade. Why not compare a stock GT350 to a 1LE with a carbon fiber wheel upgrade? Or both with carbon fiber wheels. Are you trying to stack the deck here?

Keep in mind too that if the GT PP is getting the new Michelin PS4 tires, you can bet your ass the GT350 will be getting them as well.

In other words, I would fully expect a slight bump in performance on the GT350.

I stated this earlier in this thread, but perhaps you missed it:

The 2018 GT350/GT350R will have NO CHANGES other than available colors. NONE! No upgraded tires, no suspension or chassis upgrades from the PP2 or whatever, no flux capacitor, no Saturn V rocket engines, no "whatever you are going to make up next" either. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. This is straight from Ford. You get some different choices in color. That's it. End of story.

That being the case, the new 2018 Mustang GT will be faster than the 2017 Mustang GT, with more HP and TQ from the DI/PI, some extra chassis bracing, available Magneride, Dual Mode Exhaust, and a bunch of other tech goodies (I like the look of the new digital dash). It is a solid upgrade for the GT that brings it more in line with the available options on the SS. But it will be even heavier (all that stuff is going to add some weight), it will still have an inferior chassis and base suspension, and it will cost more than it did before (all that stuff ain't free). Everyone can decide for themselves if they like the new looks (I think it looked better before, and would have preferred to have the outside look more like the GT350 if they were going to change it). I like that they have so many wheel options. Hate the wing spoiler (hate the Camaro wing spoiler also).

Will it be faster than a comparably equipped SS? Time will tell... We need to see how much bump the HP and TQ get, and how much the 10 speed auto helps.

Will it be faster than a 1LE? Not on your life. Why? Because that would make it faster than the non-R GT350. That ain't going to happen.

[IOMike]

Wow this thread is salty.