[oldman]

1st) Not all heads and cam setups = $5000+. I can port my own heads and a cam that works with the stock springs and lifters is $450 bucks and I can install it all for FREE + head gaskets. So it "ain't the same price". Of course "your price will vary"... it just varies a lot more on the heads and cam than the supercharger which will ALWAYS be in the $5500 to $7500 range.

2nd, FI, is a huge increase to torque and this can lead to drivetrain failure, which is NOT cheap. Sure there are lots of caveats like I have an auto, I only run street tires and never will track it... Clearly the hedging is an admittance that with traction and / or a M6... stuff breaks at 650 ft lbs. Said stuff is expensive.... and should be factored in with a supercharger in relation to usage.

3rd, longevity of the ring lands on this 11.4 DI engine is an unknown. I'm not saying it is going to fail the first drive down the street, but clearly especially under road race conditions, there could be longevity issues. In all cases NA is going to live longer and yield closer to stock OEM longevity, given any reasonable cam / red line NA.


4th, NA stuff can be added piecemeal, which is usually better when the commander and chief is looking over the budget.

5th, NA stuff for the most part works with a supercharger

6th, we all know just about NOBODY just blots on a supercharger and is "done"... right.. LOL, I know that is what you tell the spouse, but deep down power is addicting.

so do heads and cam = supercharger? Depends and obviously it depends on a whole lot.

My Challenger was supercharged and so is my 2015 Civic SI.

[bybcous]

No, my total bill for cam install was 4300. with all my dod delete kit, new pushrods, new titanium springs etc. To add heads to this bill would have been 5 grand installed but I just couldn't afford it and went with full bolt ons instead. Just remember that I did not go with a aggressive cam so power was left on the table and I still plan to add e85 which will put me well over 520 hp.

[Kingluis91]

Originally Posted by bybcous

No, my total bill for cam install was 4300. with all my dod delete kit, new pushrods, new titanium springs etc. To add heads to this bill would have been 5 grand installed but I just couldn't afford it and went with full bolt ons instead. Just remember that I did not go with a aggressive cam so power was left on the table and I still plan to add e85 which will put me well over 520 hp.

How is your gas mileage now? City/hwy? I always wonder if cams affect gas mileage really bad

[bybcous]

My gas mileage is the same, i drive pretty heavy footed and sit in alot of traffic every day , so this morning it said 16.9 combined. But cruising on highway, i can still get 30 if I want too.

[BradfordCamaro]

Originally Posted by oldman

1st) Not all heads and cam setups = $5000+. I can port my own heads and a cam that works with the stock springs and lifters is $450 bucks and I can install it all for FREE + head gaskets. .

I will be over when the snow is gone with 24 beer and My BTR Cam. How does that sound?

[bybcous]

Oldman, while I personally cant verify this, I have read that all compatible stock afm cams will only net about 15 hp, but for $450 and nothing to spend but your time, I do not see it as a bad investment if you are comftorable tackling this as a DIY project. Add full bolt ons and e85 and you should be at 500 easily.

[Kingluis91]

Originally Posted by bybcous

My gas mileage is the same, i drive pretty heavy footed and sit in alot of traffic every day , so this morning it said 16.9 combined. But cruising on highway, i can still get 30 if I want too.

Okay good to know.do you have a sound clip of your car?

[oldman]

Originally Posted by BradfordCamaro

I will be over when the snow is gone with 24 beer and My BTR Cam. How does that sound?

Yep, I think when the scare value wears off, people will figure dropping the pan adds 1.5 to 2 hours to the job. I figure 3.5 hours for headers, 3 hours for the heads, 3.5 hours for the cam. 1.5 hours for grins = 11.5 bookable hours. I would expect $1000 to $1500 install quotes when the fear dies down. I would expect many people DIY.

Plus I may add IMO the CNC heads from most people are too big for the 220 duration .560 lift cams I'm looking at. Even that said, the local vendor (Texas Speed) offers CNC heads and 5 angle valve job for $900 exchange!

[oldman]

Originally Posted by bybcous

Oldman, while I personally cant verify this, I have read that all compatible stock afm cams will only net about 15 hp, but for $450 and nothing to spend but your time, I do not see it as a bad investment if you are comftorable tackling this as a DIY project. Add full bolt ons and e85 and you should be at 500 easily.

Comp cams AFM cams go from mild like just over stock to Lingenfelter "smooth idle" to Lingenfelter "rough idle" to bigger than GM Performance cam. GM says their heads and cam are worth 80 HP on stock manifolding. Lingenfelter says their (heads and cam)are worth 145 HP on stock manifolds. Both setups I believe are sub .600 lift cams. I would hope a 220 duration .560" cam and reasonably good port and polish would yield 60 HP and a much stronger torque band from 3200 to 4500 RPM. but yeah, 4 lifters and some plugs are like $150...

[DiGiam]

The more i look at bybcous' cam, the power he made, how streetable it is, good mpg, and able to keep the stock converter, the more I'm liking that texas speed cam. Seems like a solid performer and on E85 will fly

[oldman]

I think there is doubt the packages are great. I'm just a little leary of a .660 lift cam on a DD. I've lived through every cam, valve spring, lifter, rocker, timing chain, push rod problem with the LS1, I changed a MILLION parts with ones that will work on a DD only to change it again 6 months later. For sure in my mind valve springs and probably rocker arm trunions are 20 K parts IMO.



But yeah, there is NO doubt that these are strong cams with a super flat top end...

[bybcous]

I dont know what all the specs mean but my car drives just look stock until I press the pedal at 70 and am spinning out just to get traction

[oldman]

oh just as an aside, something I was toying with on my M6 vs all DD post in the "VS" section. One guy mentioned he is going to be looking at 7000 rpm in 3rd with 28" tires at 120 MPH thru the traps. It got me thinking since I'm on 0 - 60 true street, Would say a 28" ish tire and 7000 RPM get me to 60 MPH and I'm at least a 1/4 second "faster" 0 to 60 cause I shift at say 61 MPH... just thinking out loud here. Come I'm from the LS1 days where 2.73 guys were only 1st and 2nd in their A4s... It was like a powerglide with two over driven gears... yuk yuk.

http://www.wallaceracing.com/calc-gear-tire-rpm-mph.php

OK I did "the math" for 60.01 MPH in 1st gear @ 7000 RPM, I would need a 28.58" tire... just for chuckles and Nitto has just the one! LOL

the 305 DR from Nitto are 28.58
http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=409961

[oldman]

Originally Posted by bybcous

I dont know what all the specs mean but my car drives just look stock until I press the pedal at 70 and am spinning out just to get traction

Need you say more?