[oldman]

yep, can't race a dyno... they are bolted to the floor for the most part. My car is a street car and any power that I can't hook is just bragging rights. Heck unless you get trolled by some Mustang with DR, the SS with FBO has little to fear at any reasonable speed.

Motortrend had an interesting article here:http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevr...term-update-5/


Ultimately, as good as the Corvette Z06 is, I think I’ve found the rare exception where I’d rather have the “slow” version of a car rather than the high-power version. For me, driving a car where all the horsepower on tap is easily accessible far outweighs having performance potential that I’ll never use.

[AndyUK]

Originally Posted by Blk16SS

Let me in on the joke, I would like to laugh too.... Based on what you said, I never had a suggestion for a good bang for the buck so what you're saying is false. I merely commented on your blanket statement that LT's don't make any power at all basically (your words not mine). That's false also... What you fail to identify with is peak #'s don't tell the whole story. My bud's SS ran the same identical times I did in the summer. Well I was a tick quicker do to my DR's... Dynoed right at the same 391hp... We put on a set of brand X headers and it made 415 with no tune and 421 leaving the shop. In a few spots it picked up as much as 25hp leading up to redline.. Making this even better, it went from 8.10's in the 1/8th to 7.70's spinning... You say you don't drag race, well I've never seen a dyno win a race either so it boils down to what's most important to you. Getting there first or emailing dyno sheets back and forth.... And the best bang for the buck deal depends on how much bang you're trying to get...

First off, i never said they make "no" power, i just said 15hp isnt worth the best part of $2k (plus fitting, plus tuning) when you can get the same power from stuff like porting or E85 for a fraction of the price.

Second, you didnt say 15, or just 25, you said 25-40hp, it was the 40hp i queried and had problems with.

Yes, I agree, if you are chasing ultimate numbers then eventually you are going to need headers, but to start talking about headers in a best bang for buck thread seems disingenuous. They wouldnt be anywhere near the top of the list in terms of low hanging fruit.

I think you need to go back and check, because your first response was to WhyUMad1LE, not me.

My car will see some track days, but not strip, hence my comment about being less concerned about breaking shafts as accel from a roll is less damaging than burnouts and hitting it from a dig. So again it just looks like a nice big strawman for you to have an argument with.

[Blk16SS]

Originally Posted by oldman

yep, can't race a dyno... they are bolted to the floor for the most part. My car is a street car and any power that I can't hook is just bragging rights. Heck unless you get trolled by some Mustang with DR, the SS with FBO has little to fear at any reasonable speed.

Motortrend had an interesting article here:http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevr...term-update-5/


Ultimately, as good as the Corvette Z06 is, I think I’ve found the rare exception where I’d rather have the “slow” version of a car rather than the high-power version. For me, driving a car where all the horsepower on tap is easily accessible far outweighs having performance potential that I’ll never use.

I would take the ZO6 brother every day of the week! I think my MK47 gives me a better chance against intruders than my wife's 9mm. That's how I view this comparison.....

[Blk16SS]

Originally Posted by AndyUK

First off, i never said they make "no" power, i just said 15hp isnt worth the best part of $2k (plus fitting, plus tuning) when you can get the same power from stuff like porting or E85 for a fraction of the price.

Second, you didnt say 15, or just 25, you said 25-40hp, it was the 40hp i queried and had problems with.

Yes, I agree, if you are chasing ultimate numbers then eventually you are going to need headers, but to start talking about headers in a best bang for buck thread seems disingenuous. They wouldnt be anywhere near the top of the list in terms of low hanging fruit.

I think you need to go back and check, because your first response was to WhyUMad1LE, not me.

My car will see some track days, but not strip, hence my comment about being less concerned about breaking shafts as accel from a roll is less damaging than burnouts and hitting it from a dig. So again it just looks like a nice big strawman for you to have an argument with.

No arguments over here... I really don't care...

[Blk16SS]

https://youtu.be/3lk7gZtKwgM
Numbers for comparison ... It is possible to gain 30+rwhp from a complete exhaust system..

[AndyUK]

Originally Posted by Blk16SS

https://youtu.be/3lk7gZtKwgM
Numbers for comparison ... It is possible to gain 30+rwhp from a complete exhaust system..

30 from headers AND a tune. A 93 tune is 15 on its own so thats 15 from the headers! Lol.

You didnt even say 30, you said 40.

And even after all of that, at what cost including fitting and tune? With or without cats?
(Without cats reduces the cost, but isnt an option for everyone - going out on a limb to say "most"?)

Completely ignoring the context of the thread.

[DFW1LE]

Peak HP/TQ numbers do not tell the whole story. What is your end goal, drag or track or just putzing on the street. While a drag racer may be looking for that top end power, on a road course that may not be helpful, so you need to look at the shape of the curves vs just peak readings. Also, this link will give you some further insight on dynos if you are not already aware:
http://www.hp-f.com.au/how-to-read-a-dyno-graph/

As to some of the mods, I thought Jannetty Racing, in Waterbury, CT did some pretty good analysis of what various mods might yield if I recall correctly, so probably worth trying to find his posts, but remember when modding, keep your intended purpose in mind.

[AndyUK]

Originally Posted by DFW1LE

Peak HP/TQ numbers do not tell the whole story. What is your end goal, drag or track or just putzing on the street. While a drag racer may be looking for that top end power, on a road course that may not be helpful, so you need to look at the shape of the curves vs just peak readings. Also, this link will give you some further insight on dynos if you are not already aware:
http://www.hp-f.com.au/how-to-read-a-dyno-graph/

As to some of the mods, I thought Jannetty Racing, in Waterbury, CT did some pretty good analysis of what various mods might yield if I recall correctly, so probably worth trying to find his posts, but remember when modding, keep your intended purpose in mind.

If thats aimed at me its not really neccesary, but thanks. And yes Jannetty did some very useful testing, i posted the link to it a few pages back.

1 7/8" headers gained 14hp peak to peak, and their best gain anywhere on the curve was 15hp.
2" headers gained more but also lost 5-10tq in the lower areas, so its a trade off.

[Blk16SS]

Originally Posted by AndyUK

30 from headers AND a tune. A 93 tune is 15 on its own so thats 15 from the headers! Lol.

You didnt even say 30, you said 40.

And even after all of that, at what cost including fitting and tune? With or without cats?
(Without cats reduces the cost, but isnt an option for everyone - going out on a limb to say "most"?)

Completely ignoring the context of the thread.

No I'm really just ignoring YOU, but I will make my last comment on this and move on this since you're in the trolling mood... For the 100th time, I think I said FULL EXHAUST SYSTEM. Did I not? Yeah I did.. Only you interjected the DIY angle which was never brought up. I've been a certified mechanic for over 20 years so yeah I can put on a blower too. But to the average Joe, he or she might not have the confidence or skill set to perform major bolt ons like headers, etc. But let's take what you said. You said you could put on a blower. That would be great and it would save you around $1500... So I can assume you can put on an exhaust system given the same B mechanic skill set you say you have. A SW full exhaust system is as low $2000 and no more than $2400 front to back.. Knock off $1000 bucks for the install because you're so talented you can do it yourself and there's the nice bang for the buck you're so desperately looking for.. And as far as the tune goes, I've seen 5, 10 hp tops. What have you SEEN? So this blue car is just one example of 30+rwhp . How can you honestly believe you know it got 15 from the tune when you wasn't even there????

[DFW1LE]

Originally Posted by AndyUK

If thats aimed at me its not really neccesary, but thanks.

Not aimed at anyone, but often times folks have only a partial understanding of whats going on, so thought it might help some members.

[Blk16SS]

Originally Posted by DFW1LE

Not aimed at anyone, but often times folks have only a partial understanding of whats going on, so thought it might help some members.

+1

[Fraxum]

Great thread! Here is my 2 cents. There is more to think about than just HP per $.

With LTs, MSD, Rotofab, and a good tune for $3-4K my M6 SS a solid 11 second car with a decent 60'. All that adds around 35-40 HP in parts of the curve but moves power somewhat upwards towards the redline. A little less fun on the street. Without the MSD you are not going to get to those numbers. And in a mostly stock car exhaust adds nothing you will notice.

I think with a less restrictive air filter, a ported TB (just for fun), a ported manifold, E85, and a good tune my SS would be in the same place but with less of a move toward the upper RPM for less than 1/2 the cost, especially if you DIY the parts yourself and get a remote tune. And if you add HP Tuners and DIY the parts I would think you are still under $2K.

Check this out, an E86 M6 SS with a solid 11.8:

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=475780

If you think about the future, and with modding you should, it would be easy to put the E85 car back to stock if you want something else. Nobody and especially dealers want a modified car. If you sell it modified be prepared to take a bath with losing additional $$ when selling the car.

As for me the A10 is weakening my no autos resolve. It will be a hassle for me to put my car back to stock to get something with the A10. Life is for learning.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by AndyUK

First off, i never said they make "no" power, i just said 15hp isnt worth the best part of $2k (plus fitting, plus tuning) when you can get the same power from stuff like porting or E85 for a fraction of the price.

Second, you didnt say 15, or just 25, you said 25-40hp, it was the 40hp i queried and had problems with.

Yes, I agree, if you are chasing ultimate numbers then eventually you are going to need headers, but to start talking about headers in a best bang for buck thread seems disingenuous. They wouldnt be anywhere near the top of the list in terms of low hanging fruit.

I think you need to go back and check, because your first response was to WhyUMad1LE, not me.

My car will see some track days, but not strip, hence my comment about being less concerned about breaking shafts as accel from a roll is less damaging than burnouts and hitting it from a dig. So again it just looks like a nice big strawman for you to have an argument with.

Actually headers and off-road pipes for sub $1000 clearly fits in best bang for the dollar. 15 HP and a broad increase in torque and a foundation for many other mods. Inability to fit them personal is superfluous.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

Great thread! Here is my 2 cents. There is more to think about than just HP per $.

With LTs, MSD, Rotofab, and a good tune for $3-4K my M6 SS a solid 11 second car with a decent 60'. All that adds around 35-40 HP in parts of the curve but moves power somewhat upwards towards the redline. A little less fun on the street. Without the MSD you are not going to get to those numbers. And in a mostly stock car exhaust adds nothing you will notice.

I think with a less restrictive air filter, a ported TB (just for fun), a ported manifold, E85, and a good tune my SS would be in the same place but with less of a move toward the upper RPM for less than 1/2 the cost, especially if you DIY the parts yourself and get a remote tune. And if you add HP Tuners and DIY the parts I would think you are still under $2K.

Check this out, an E86 M6 SS with a solid 11.8:

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=475780

If you think about the future, and with modding you should, it would be easy to put the E85 car back to stock if you want something else. Nobody and especially dealers want a modified car. If you sell it modified be prepared to take a bath with losing additional $$ when selling the car.

As for me the A10 is weakening my no autos resolve. It will be a hassle for me to put my car back to stock to get something with the A10. Life is for learning.

That is the word. I knew I was building for Heads and cam so I went with the MSD. The only A10 I know of is the Warthog, you flying that instead of driving?

I had a Penton 125cc when I growing up. Loved the thing.