[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by bdougwrx

True, the V6 1LE could of beat the GT by 5.2 seconds.

Exactly.

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Exactly!

The cobra had an entirely different engine. You can't argue against the track prepared 1le and the gt350 using the same logic!

Um no, because now there ARE direct competitors in the same categories. SS 1LE and GT PP. We didn't always have that. The GT350 is low volume, premium, and much more money than a SS 1LE. The Cobra was not a premuim Shelby, and was priced very close to an SS as I've said before. To think the GT350 and an SS with an option package are direct competitors shows your true colors...and lack of knowledge.

Furthermore, the Cobra was not a premium car, or limited edition, unlike the Shelby GT350.

But good try going back 15 years to TRY to proove your point...

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

One more thing for y'all to chew on.

Why do an overwhelming majority of mustang owners buy the performance pack?
Because there are a ton of them sitting on the dealer lots. They look better than the base GTs with the bigger wheels?, brakes and ground effects. They feel peppier because of the steeper gearing. Do they care about track performance? For a vast majority, they don't.

How about the 1le and gt350?
People buying these vehicles seek them out because of their track abilities. These will most likely be much more limited production and most will probably be special ordered.

Does this sound like the same target audience for the majority?

People buy the GT PP since the base GT is a turd, if Ford gave a better base package, it wouldn't be the case.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

Um no, because now there ARE direct competitors in the same categories.

Furthermore, the Cobra was not a premium car, or limited edition, unlike the Shelby GT350.

But good try going back 15 years to TRY to proove your point...

But they WERE limited production and a premium. You have already proved my point.

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

People buy the GT PP since the base GT is a turd, if Ford gave a better base package, it wouldn't be the case.

Ford is exactly where they want to be. Money is king.

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

But they WEiRE limited production. You have already proved my point.

Wrong. The '03-'04 Cobra was not a limited production car. Heck, I walked in my dealer and bought one off the lot for under msrp a few months after they came out. They weren't that much more than a SS either, nothing like the huge gap of the Shelby GT350..

Ford is exactly where they want to be. Money is king.

So you know Ford's profit structure too, you sit in on the board meetings too?

Guess not, as Ford definitely doesn't want to be here:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/fords-pr...les-1469705467

But GM is looking just fine:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/gms-prof...les-1469101371

[ChefBorOzzy]

So much butthurt from the Ford camp. There's like a 6k difference between 1LE and GT PP with Recaro seats.. A base GT for sure doesn't have the same features either.. It's 12k for a GT350 over a 1LE, so how is that the more valid comparison?

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

So much butthurt from the Ford camp. There's like a 6k difference between 1LE and GT PP with Recaro seats.. A base GT for sure doesn't have the same features either.. It's 12k for a GT350 over a 1LE, so how is that the more valid comparison?

It's not, just to the "fan boys" it is.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

Wrong. The '03-'04 Cobra was not a limited production car. Heck, I walked in my dealer and bought one off the lot for under msrp a few months after they came out. They weren't that much more than a SS either, nothing like the huge gap of the Shelby GT350..

Not limited eh?

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

So you know Ford's profit structure too, you sit in on the board meetings too?

Guess not, as Ford definitely doesn't want to be here:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/fords-pr...les-1469705467

But GM is looking just fine:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/gms-prof...les-1469101371

No idea...all I know is they are killing the camaro in sales...and everyone is concerned enough for monthly build threads to pop up.

You can keep your opinions, just don't use the excuse of of the GT350 having a different engine or being a limited production vehicle as a reason to not compare it to GMs naturally aspirated, track oriented option.

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Not limited eh?




No idea...all I know is they are killing the camaro in sales...and everyone is concerned enough for monthly build threads to pop up.

You can keep your opinions, just don't use the excuse of of the GT350 having a different engine or being a limited production vehicle as a reason to not compare it to GMs naturally aspirated, track oriented option.

Nope not limited, that number was the target production number, not a cut off. I owned one, did you?

Not everyone is concerned, as the same people post those threads. Fact is nobody knows their true profit structure or targets.

You really have no clue how cars are positioned in a lineup, you have made that very clear. If you think GM or Ford thought for one second that the SS 1LE and GT350 were going to be sitting in the same spot on each manufacturers line up, you need to lay off the fan boy crack pipe. Bottom line is the GT PP and SS 1LE are each others true competitors. Not GM's fault Ford brought a knife to a gun fight. That still doesn't change product placement.

So let me guess, if the GT PP performed closer to or beat the SS 1LE you would be saying they are in the same class then right lol?

You don't even have to answer that, as we all know what you want say...

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

Nope not limited, that number was the target production number, not a cut off. I owned one, did you?

Not everyone is concerned, as the same people post those threads. Fact us nobody knows their true profit structure or targets.

You really have no clue how cars are positioned in a lineup, you have made that very clear. If you think GM or Ford thought for one second that the SS 1LE and GT350 were going to be sitting in the same spot on each manufacturers line up, you need to lay off the fan boy crack pipe. Bottom line is the GT PP and SS 1LE are each others true competitors. Not GM's fault Ford brought a knife to a gun fight. That still doesn't change product placement.

So let me guess, if the GT PP performed closer to or beat the SS 1LE you would be saying they are in the same class? You don't even have to answer that, as we all know what you want say...

What part of limited don't you understand? I did own one (an earlier model).

I have already proven my point. You can try to backtrack all you want, but you already admitted that it's OK to align an SS model to a limited, special production mustang with a different engine.

The demographic of people purchasing the GTPP and 1le are NOT the same. Everyone except you and a few others know it. The GTPP is NOT a track oriented, track ready vehicle nor was it intended to be. It is a daily driver that has some capable upgrades.

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

What part of limited don't you understand? I did own one (an earlier model).

I have already proven my point. You can try to backtrack all you want, but you already admitted that it's OK to align an SS model to a limited, special production mustang with a different engine.

The demographic of people purchasing the GTPP and 1le are NOT the same. Everyone except you and a few others know it. The GTPP is NOT a track oriented, track ready vehicle nor was it intended to be. It is a daily driver that has some capable upgrades.

You use 15 year old cars, different model line structures, a non Shelby, etc, etc...you proved nothing. I'm not wasting my time with you anymore.

You need a hobby, pet, girlfriend, boyfriend, something. As you obviously have lots of free time to troll other car forums, that's for sure.

Good luck.

[Zultain7]

Why does it seem that everyone is getting the past into this? When looking into the current lineups of both manufactures its a pretty simple thing to see for me. I'm not 100% on where the ZL1 and Gt350/350R fall, It's played out to this.

Camaro T4 - Mustang V6
Camaro V6 - Mustang EcoBoost
Camaro V6 1LE - Mustang EcoBoost PP
Camaro SS - Mustang GT
Camaro SS 1LE - Mustang GTPP

Everyone who is throwing Price of this to price of that is missing the point of what the intentions of the manufactures lineups are. Regardless of the price between them, be it more or less, the lineups are the lineups.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by Zultain7

Why does it seem that everyone is getting the past into this? When looking into the current lineups of both manufactures its a pretty simple thing to see for me. I'm not 100% on where the ZL1 and Gt350/350R fall, It's played out to this.

Camaro T4 - Mustang V6
Camaro V6 - Mustang EcoBoost
Camaro V6 1LE - Mustang EcoBoost PP
Camaro SS - Mustang GT
Camaro SS 1LE - Mustang GTPP

Everyone who is throwing Price of this to price of that is missing the point of what the intentions of the manufactures lineups are. Regardless of the price between them, be it more or less, the lineups are the lineups.

That past was brought into it for a few reasons. One was the argument that the 1le can't be compared to the GT350 as the GT350 is a limited production specialty vehicle with a different engine. This never stopped anyone from aligning the SS to the limited production SVT models of old, why does it now?

As it stands, the mustang has an extra level that GM doesn't cover...as they no longer sell a base level v8. The GT used to align to the base Z28.

Many in here seem to consider the GTPP as a track optioned vehicle, but in all reality it's not. Ford does sell a track package add on aftermarket. Just because it's an add on option similar to the 1le does not mean it was intended for the same purpose. Both the GT and the GTPP are cheaper than the 1SS. That should give you a clue as to how the lineups play out.

As it stands, the only track ready mustang in the lineup is the GT350/GT350R. Sure it's expensive as hell in comparison to the 1le, but price never stopped comparisons before...why now?

I won't likely change your or anyone elses mind in here...so I'll stop arguing about it. My point in posting was to shed some light into how others feel the lineup plays out. Considering a large number of mustangs sell with the performance pack, most mustang people would likely agree with the lineup I posted.

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by Zultain7

Why does it seem that everyone is getting the past into this? When looking into the current lineups of both manufactures its a pretty simple thing to see for me. I'm not 100% on where the ZL1 and Gt350/350R fall, It's played out to this.

Camaro T4 - Mustang V6
Camaro V6 - Mustang EcoBoost
Camaro V6 1LE - Mustang EcoBoost PP
Camaro SS - Mustang GT
Camaro SS 1LE - Mustang GTPP

Everyone who is throwing Price of this to price of that is missing the point of what the intentions of the manufactures lineups are. Regardless of the price between them, be it more or less, the lineups are the lineups.

Exactly.

Unless you have the "our GT PP got it doors blown off by the SS 1LE, so lets position it elsewhere to satisfy our needs" philosophy.

Ford called the GT PP track ready multiple times, including engineers saying it to my face at the Ecoboost tour and when I was invited to drive multiple Mustangs at Sebring. I guess everyone forgets all the propaganda Ford put out before the GT PP came out saying how it beat the Boss 302 on the track too. But, yeah, that car was never marketed as anything of the sort...

http://www.mustang6g.com/?p=2108