[OminouSS]

Originally Posted by MrChrisLS3

Not sure what your asking here, however, from what I understand MSRP's today are about an average of 6% to 8% over dealer cost. Higher end cars and depending on RPO's may be a little more 10-15% perhaps? But it's a lot less than other retail industries. For example, if you go to a bar and order a 16 oz draft beer, it costs the bar about $.15 and charge you, what, $5 give or take?

My question is simply what are dealers making on the car at MSRP? I thought invoice would be about $55,000 on the ZL1 but that sounds like too much margin by your estimations.

It's crazy to me to consider that a Z06 for instance, costs more to produce (after all expenses), than say $60,000. But I guess that's where payroll, infrastructure and investor dividends begin to outweigh R&D and materials. In the end, you have a $100,000 car that you make $10K at market. Insane, really. First world insanity.

[DenverTaco07]

My guess is that the dealers are buying the ZL1 about $3 or 4K, maybe 5K on the high end, below MSRP. Then there are times when manufacturers do hold backs and other incentives to widen that margin.

Just a guess based on what i've seen from marginal research on my part, by no means am I an expert, but I believe even at "invoice" a dealer is making 2 to 3% margin.

[Gearslammer]

Typical business models run 20% overhead. Then there is profit on top of that. GM will kick back a lot of money to the dealers that consumers are not aware of. Dealers always play the invoice bs game, but don't believe their story. Otherwise they would all be out of business with under 10%. Although I love buying new cars, the benefits of buying a used car are real with a lower price and a car that has been tested for a while. Lots of Camaros are being made so the used market should offer some great deals. I am patient and found some great car deals that way.

[oakaro68]

Speaking of salesmen not knowing jack sh*t, I went to a Chevy dealer here in San Antonio a while back and the guy started showing me a Zo6 and was telling me "it's got 650 hp at the crank...(paused for a bit)...750 at the wheels" I am not exaggerating guys...I just said "oh really?!" what a dumb a**

[Childs Play]

Originally Posted by oakaro68

Speaking of salesmen not knowing jack sh*t, I went to a Chevy dealer here in San Antonio a while back and the guy started showing me a Zo6 and was telling me "it's got 650 hp at the crank...(paused for a bit)...750 at the wheels" I am not exaggerating guys...I just said "oh really?!" what a dumb a**

haha!

Sounds similar to the sales guy I was dealing with on the 2017 Sonic.

I told him I wanted the sedan. Premier trim with RS and confidence package. He tried to tell me that the RS was super rare and hard to find. I kinda just laughed at him. Basically he was trying to say he'd want MSRP/mark-up for a Chevy Sonic. He might get it but it won't be from me.

[Evolvedx27]

now thats funny shit! lol

Originally Posted by oakaro68

Speaking of salesmen not knowing jack sh*t, I went to a Chevy dealer here in San Antonio a while back and the guy started showing me a Zo6 and was telling me "it's got 650 hp at the crank...(paused for a bit)...750 at the wheels" I am not exaggerating guys...I just said "oh really?!" what a dumb a**

[Diode Dynamics]

I wouldn't pay ADM on a new car, regardless of how limited or special the edition was.

There's plenty of Chevy dealers out there, eventually you'll find one at the price you are willing to pay.

Nick C.

[nvrsatisfied]

Originally Posted by Glen e

As a former sales manager and general manager, I can tell you that I do understand the markup. I don't agree with it , but I do understand it. There are dealers that think, and rightfully so , that somebody with an inheritance, or daddy's stupid money, or here in Florida we actually get people from the Middle East that will come over and pay way over sticker to have the first one. So,there are dealers the want to do the right thing and Charge MSRP , and there's other dealers that want to take 80 grand on the first two cars extra , and bank the money. There is stupid money out there, and some dealers want to take advantage of it. At least for the first six months.

My favorite story is down here in South Florida at the BMW dealership there are four guys, 35 years old that fly in from china in their G5 and buy 4 M4'S - cash- - just to run around town and raise hell for 3 weeks , and sell them back to the dealership and go home. Just because they don't like rental cars. They've done it for four years in a row.....

[PH3688]

With the exception of a few people this car is going to to start a 70,000. Why do people still think that MSRP is the constitution for which you actually buy a car for. It's completely false. So call a spade a spade. Zl1 hardtop 70k, vert 75+k.

[mkorgan]

Let me preface these comments with the disclaimer that I am a small business owner and have been for 27 years so I have a much different perspective than many who are commenting on this (and many other threads) about what someone should pay for something.

Simply put, why does it matter? If I want the car, can afford the car, and am getting a deal I can live with...why does it matter what margins the dealer is making? When is the last time you went and bought a house and said to yourself, "Nope, can't do it. I am going to go buy this other house, in this other neighborhood because the house I really want in the area I really want to live in won't work for me because the builder is making too much profit?" Or decided to go to another DR because his overhead is lower than the other DR who charges more for his services. I assume everyone on this thread who obsesses over margins and profits only shop at WalMart and only eat at McDonalds. If you like the car, can live with the price and payments....why does all this other stuff matter?

There are so many other things that should enter the equation. Do you like the person you are dealing with? Are they responsive to your questions, concerns? Are they trustworthy and have a strong track record of customer service? Will they be around next week when I have an issue I need their help with in resolving? Do they offer ancillary services that increase the value of the purchase and the ownership experience (my dealer provides loaner cars for service appointments in excess of 2 hours if you bought the car there), and the list goes on. There is more than just the OTD price that should be considered with ANY purchase....including a car.

Ok, vent over. Back to your "nothing over invoice" discussion :-)

[DenverTaco07]

Originally Posted by mkorgan

Let me preface these comments with the disclaimer that I am a small business owner and have been for 27 years so I have a much different perspective than many who are commenting on this (and many other threads) about what someone should pay for something.

Simply put, why does it matter? If I want the car, can afford the car, and am getting a deal I can live with...why does it matter what margins the dealer is making? When is the last time you went and bought a house and said to yourself, "Nope, can't do it. I am going to go buy this other house, in this other neighborhood because the house I really want in the area I really want to live in won't work for me because the builder is making too much profit?" Or decided to go to another DR because his overhead is lower than the other DR who charges more for his services. I assume everyone on this thread who obsesses over margins and profits only shop at WalMart and only eat at McDonalds. If you like the car, can live with the price and payments....why does all this other stuff matter?

There are so many other things that should enter the equation. Do you like the person you are dealing with? Are they responsive to your questions, concerns? Are they trustworthy and have a strong track record of customer service? Will they be around next week when I have an issue I need their help with in resolving? Do they offer ancillary services that increase the value of the purchase and the ownership experience (my dealer provides loaner cars for service appointments in excess of 2 hours if you bought the car there), and the list goes on. There is more than just the OTD price that should be considered with ANY purchase....including a car.

Ok, vent over. Back to your "nothing over invoice" discussion :-)

Most of us want a solid deal that's all, I can't afford not to get the best deal that I can.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by PH3688

With the exception of a few people this car is going to to start a 70,000. Why do people still think that MSRP is the constitution for which you actually buy a car for. It's completely false. So call a spade a spade. Zl1 hardtop 70k, vert 75+k.

The ZL1 is no GT350R. It is not even limited production.

SOME(early adopters) will pay over MSRP, MOST won't.

[mkorgan]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

Most of us want a solid deal that's all, I can't afford not to get the best deal that I can.

Totally understand that, I do the same thing myself every day but the level of obsession in how much the dealer makes is a little over the tops in here sometimes.

[clanky]

Originally Posted by oakaro68

Speaking of salesmen not knowing jack sh*t, I went to a Chevy dealer here in San Antonio a while back and the guy started showing me a Zo6 and was telling me "it's got 650 hp at the crank...(paused for a bit)...750 at the wheels" I am not exaggerating guys...I just said "oh really?!" what a dumb a**

I dunno I think he knows his stuff. Everyone knows the crank doesn't have more horsepower than the wheels. Afterall it's the wheels actually put down the POWAH! That's pretty hilarious even for a saleperson. I would have taken the bait, gone down the rabbit hole, and asked why's it got more at the wheels? I'm sure the follow up answer would have been just as good. And yes I am fully aware these are just normal guys trying to sell something to make money for their families. That doesn't excuse them for not knowing simple things about the product they sell.