[hotlap]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Anyone who thinks the V6 Camaro is even remotely a threat to any GT Mustang on a drag strip has no idea whatsoever about actual drag racing.

In reality the Mustang is a high 12 second car, stock, on a drag strip. The Camaro is a high 13 second car, and the SS a low-to-flat 12 second car with an auto, or a mid-ish 12 second car with a manual

All depending on driver skill and weather of course

Magazine racer? You can say the same regarding the GT and SS. Chevy rates the V6 auto at 13.5 and, as you point out, the GT is 12.9. That 0.6 gap lines up with the GT/SS gap.

I agree with your point though. Just pointing out the V6 and GT gap

[Richard0nee]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Anyone who thinks the V6 Camaro is even remotely a threat to any GT Mustang on a drag strip has no idea whatsoever about actual drag racing. The times highlighted above vindicate that position, not supporting the closeness of the times.

In reality the Mustang is a high 12 second car, stock, on a drag strip. The Camaro V6 is a high 13 second car, and the SS a low-to-flat 12 second car with an auto, or a mid-ish 12 second car with a manual

All depending on driver skill and weather of course

Car and Driver, MotorTrend, Cars.com other have got 12.3 in a manual M6 as well.

Let's get off magazine times and look at our fast list.. there's a handful of Gen 6 owners that got 12.3 and below. The ones below must be in a really good DA, hero times.

The auto, have went 12.0 to low 12's consistently.

[FNxR3DNECK]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Anyone who thinks the V6 Camaro is even remotely a threat to any GT Mustang on a drag strip has no idea whatsoever about actual drag racing. The times highlighted above vindicate that position, not supporting the closeness of the times.

In reality the Mustang is a high 12 second car, stock, on a drag strip. The Camaro V6 is a high 13 second car, and the SS a low-to-flat 12 second car with an auto, or a mid-ish 12 second car with a manual

All depending on driver skill and weather of course

To this point I will say yes you are correct, the GT should walk on a V6 1LE at the strip 9 times out of 10. But... It's a 1LE! This is the 1LE sub, we aren't concerned with 1/4 times haha it's all about road course performance where "it seems" thhe V6 1LE is quicker than a GT PP. which like the other guys have said is not crazy considering the weight difference. But it's all in good fun! I can't wait to try and convince some people into getting the V6 1LE instead of a Toyota 86 or other options that are cheaper than the SS!

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Anyone who thinks the V6 Camaro is even remotely a threat to any GT Mustang on a drag strip has no idea whatsoever about actual drag racing. The times highlighted above vindicate that position, not supporting the closeness of the times.

In reality the Mustang is a high 12 second car, stock, on a drag strip. The Camaro V6 is a high 13 second car, and the SS a low-to-flat 12 second car with an auto, or a mid-ish 12 second car with a manual

All depending on driver skill and weather of course

The average GT is not a high 12 second car...more like a very low 13. I know a few owners in my club, and have seen probably 50 of them run while I'm at the track. 13.0-13.2 is their average...

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by FNxR3DNECK

To this point I will say yes you are correct, the GT should walk on a V6 1LE at the strip 9 times out of 10. But... It's a 1LE! This is the 1LE sub, we aren't concerned with 1/4 times haha it's all about road course performance where "it seems" thhe V6 1LE is quicker than a GT PP. which like the other guys have said is not crazy considering the weight difference. But it's all in good fun! I can't wait to try and convince some people into getting the V6 1LE instead of a Toyota 86 or other options that are cheaper than the SS!

The MPH tells the tale. A 10mph delta is huge. This is even more huge in the twisties, as the higher MPH will absolutely destroy the low on the straits and out of the turns. This it what makes it so difficult to believe the v6 would outperform the GTPP with the same tires on the same day. It very well may outhandle the GTPP, but the GTPP does not handle THAT bad...and would absolutely murder the v6 on the straits. Of course, we will likely never know...as I doubt they would ever do a head to head on this.

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

The average GT is not a high 12 second car...more like a very low 13. I know a few owners in my club, and have seen probably 50 of them run while I'm at the track. 13.0-13.2 is their average...

The GT has the MPH to run mid 12's. The problem it has is the 60', or the difficulty of achieving a good one. The first 60 makes or breaks the 1/4 mile for a car. Cut a 2.2 in the mustang and it's going run low 13's. Cut a 1.8 and it's going to run mid 12's.

[Egon]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

The MPH tells the tale. A 10mph delta is huge. This is even more huge in the twisties, as the higher MPH will absolutely destroy the low on the straits and out of the turns. This it what makes it so difficult to believe the v6 would outperform the GTPP with the same tires on the same day. It very well may outhandle the GTPP, but the GTPP does not handle THAT bad...and would absolutely murder the v6 on the straits. Of course, we will likely never know...as I doubt they would ever do a head to head on this.

I responded to you on the other thread about the V6 1LE vs GTPP but it seems like that thread may be dead now. Here is what I said over there.

I don't think the 100 hp deficit is as big as you make it out to be in a track setting. First off the GT350(non R) has 71 more hp and a similar weight to the SS 1LE and yet the SS 1LE is still faster. The V6 1LE is down 100 hp from the Mustang GTPP but it also weighs 270 lbs less. A weight savings of that amount is worth a LOT since you won't be throwing as much weight around when cornering. It's a significant advantage, and it is one of the reasons I think the V6 1LE may be devastating in SCCA F-Street class next year. That is assuming they leave it in FS and don't move it to a different class like they are likely to do with the SS 1LE into A-Street.

And before you say anything about tires consider that a Mustang Ecoboost came in 3rd this year in SCCA Nationals just behind a 2016 Camaro SS, and a 2015 Camaro 1LE all with Bridgestone RE-71r's. (I think they were even the same sizes on the 16 Camaro SS and the 2015 Ecoboost) The lower weight of the Ecoboost made it competitive despite being down 145hp to the winning Camaro. (it was 6 tenths behind the winning car over 2 days of competition)

[HZjr]

C7 GS, super impressive.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by Egon

I responded to you on the other thread about the V6 1LE vs GTPP but it seems like that thread may be dead now. Here is what I said over there.

I don't think the 100 hp deficit is as big as you make it out to be in a track setting. First off the GT350(non R) has 71 more hp and a similar weight to the SS 1LE and yet the SS 1LE is still faster. The V6 1LE is down 100 hp from the Mustang GTPP but it also weighs 270 lbs less. A weight savings of that amount is worth a LOT since you won't be throwing as much weight around when cornering. It's a significant advantage, and it is one of the reasons I think the V6 1LE may be devastating in SCCA F-Street class next year. That is assuming they leave it in FS and don't move it to a different class like they are likely to do with the SS 1LE into A-Street.

And before you say anything about tires consider that a Mustang Ecoboost came in 3rd this year in SCCA Nationals just behind a 2016 Camaro SS, and a 2015 Camaro 1LE all with Bridgestone RE-71r's. (I think they were even the same sizes on the 16 Camaro SS and the 2015 Ecoboost) The lower weight of the Ecoboost made it competitive despite being down 145hp to the winning Camaro. (it was 6 tenths behind the winning car over 2 days of competition)

Totally understand what you're saying. The more turns, the less advantage the horsepower becomes. I have no doubt that on a smaller track with more turns, the V6 1le would be a force. Of course, driver experience and expertise goes a long way in a race, especially at an armature level. The only real way to determine the quicker vehicle is on the same day with the same expert driver.

[Bosse'sBoss]

Originally Posted by Tran

The lap times from the 2016 Car and Driver Annual Lightning Lap test from Virginia International Raceway (VIR) are in, and here's how the all new 1LE (both V8 and V6) fared.

Both models turned in very impressive performances!


Lap times (around VIR):

2:44.2 -- 2016 Dodge Viper ACR
2:45.1 -- 2016 Ferrari 488GTB
2:47.0 -- 2016 Porsche 911 GT3 RS
2:47.1 -- 2017 Corvette Grand Sport
2:47.4 -- 2016 McLaren 570S
2:50.2 -- 2017 Acura NSX
2:51.8 -- 2016 Mustang GT350R
2:52.9 -- 2017 BMW //M4 GTS
2:54.0 -- 2016 Porsche Cayman GT4
2:54.8 -- 2017 Chevrolet Camaro V8 1LE
2:56.1 -- 2017 Audi R8 V10 Plus
3:01.9 -- 2016 BMW //M2
3:03.5 -- 2016 Dodge Charger Hellcat
3:03.9 -- 2016 Focus RS
3:04.0 -- 2017 Chevrolet Camaro V6 1LE
3:05.9 -- 2016 Lexus GS-F
3:07.7 -- 2016 Audi TTS



Compare these times to the Lightning Lap overall historic lap times list:

Attachment 819677

Great article!
Amazing how the '17 Corvette GS (2.47.1) steep over the McLaren 570S 2.47.4 and very close bited the heels of the Porsche 911 GT3RS (2.47.0).
-The '15 Camaro Z28 (2.50.9) better times than the Shelby GT350R (2.51.8) and very close following the Ferrari F12 berlinetta (2.50.8).
-The Shelby GT350R matched the Lamborguini Gallardo LP570-4 Superleggera (2.51.8).
-Chevrolet Stingray (2.53.8) faster than the Lamborguini Murcielago LP670-4SV (53.9).
-The '17 Camaro SS 1LE (2.54.8) faster than the Lexus LFA ( 2.55.1) and very close to -the Ferrari 430 Scuderia (2.54.6) and faster than the prior Camaro ZL1 (2.57.5).
-Prior Camaro ZL1 (2.57.5) same times to the '11 Porsche 911 Turbo S & the Audi R8 V10- Plus.
-'16 Cadillac CTS-V (2.56.8) very close to the new AudiR8
-'16 Viper ACR (2.44.2) very close to the Porsche 918 Spyder (2.43.1)

There is no doubt that USA is building great cars that can beat the best exotics from Europe and Japan for much less $.

[vtirocz]

Originally Posted by Richard0nee

I would say that after owning, driving the GT PP it feels much faster than 13.2. Handful of magazines also got 12.9 for the GT PP.. But nothing less than 12.9 for the M6.

I would imagine the GT PP to struggle with the SS on a road course as well. The V6 1LE borrowed suspension parts from the SS.. I'm still shocked how the V6 1LE being that close to the GT PP. Drag them, the 5.0 will still handle the V6 1LE at the drags tho. But that's fine, a lot of people who track will now consider the car.

Will I take a V6 1LE over a base SS? Never! But that's me

Good job V6 1LE!

I think the V6 1LE's biggest problem is how close the price is to the 1SS, which will destroy it on a track.

[aestil]

Originally Posted by vtirocz

I think the V6 1LE's biggest problem is how close the price is to the 1SS, which will destroy it on a track.

Maybe, but the advantage the V6 1LE has is the better front/rear weight balance.

On smaller tracks without or with shorter straights the V6 1LE would probably have some parity with the SS. If you were buying for autocross I think the V6 1LE would be better than the SS.

[Memphis43]

Originally Posted by aestil

Maybe, but the advantage the V6 1LE has is the better front/rear weight balance.



On smaller tracks without or with shorter straights the V6 1LE would probably have some parity with the SS. If you were buying for autocross I think the V6 1LE would be better than the SS.

Absolutely. It's why the ecoboost mustang with the performance pack did so well in FS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WhyUMad1LE]

2017 CHEVROLET CAMARO 1LE (LL1) 3:04.0
BASE PRICE: $34,495
AS-TESTED PRICE: $43,185
335 HP • 3516 LB • 10.5 LB/HP
TIRES: GOODYEAR EAGLE F1 ASYMMETRIC3 RUNFLAT
F: 245/40ZR-20 95Y
R: 275/35ZR-20 98Y
—

The 2006 Nissan 350Z Track lasted nine Lightning Laps and withstood 38 challengers before its LL1 class-record 3:12.5 lap fell. A Ford Mustang V-6 matched the Nissan’s time in 2011, but it’s the Chevy pony car that finally dethrones them both. The Camaro V-6 1LE does not merely claim the fastest LL1 time in the 10-year existence of Lightning Lap, it blasts the old record with eight sticks of dynamite.

Coming within $504 of the LL1 cap, the $34,495 Camaro 1LE steals more than eight seconds from the previous LL1 record holders. In doing so, it leaves in its wake a parade of more powerful and more expensive cars, and it absolutely stomps its current Blue Oval rival, the Mustang EcoBoost equipped with the Performance package. Were they on the track at the same time, the boosted Mustang would only be exiting Hog Pen onto the front straight as the Camaro crossed the start/finish line at 3:04. The Ford needs an additional 11.6 seconds to complete its lap. And it gets worse for Mustang acolytes: Despite a 100-hp deficit, the 1LE laps VIR faster than the eight-cylinder Mustang GT.

The first six-cylinder in the 28-year history of the 1LE badge, this Camaro offers far more grip than go. There’s so much stick and stability in corners that, through the spaghetti-noodle infield, the 1LE punches above its 335-hp rating with a quicker time in sector four than the Jaguar F-type Project 7, the 10-cylinder Audi R8, and the 707-hp Dodge Charger SRT Hellcat, among others. At the limit, the Camaro defaults to a slight and manageable front-end push that makes the chassis feel imperturbable. Weighty steering places the front tires exactly where you will them.

LL1 competitors often demand frequent cool-down laps (and immense self-control) to keep from glazing the rotors, melting the pads, or chunking the tires. Not so with this package with indefatigable brakes (Brembos up front) and Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric3 rubber that wears progressively. The $4500 package also brings engine-oil, differential, and transmission coolers; a limited-slip differential; and a firmer suspension with rear toe-control links that trade bushings for stiffer ball joints.

The guttural 3.6-liter V-6—the same heavily revised engine as in all other six-cylinder Camaros—charges to 7000 rpm with a boisterous enthusiasm that’s seemingly been lost in all but the most exotic six-pot engines. It’s a fantastic engine, and also this car’s greatest shortcoming. The chassis simply deserves more power. Chevy already has the fix: the Camaro SS 1LE.

2017 CHEVROLET CAMARO SS 1LE (LL2) 2:54.8
BASE PRICE: $44,400
AS-TESTED PRICE: $45,700
455 HP • 3743 LB • 8.2 LB/HP
TIRES: GOODYEAR EAGLE F1 SUPERCAR 3
F: 285/30ZR-20 (95Y)
R: 305/30ZR-20 (99Y)
—

There’s nothing apparently exotic about a Chevy Camaro SS 1LE. It weighs 3743 pounds. It lacks carbon-ceramic brakes and a dual-clutch transmission. Carbon fiber? Not a strand. Turbos? Nope. A mid-engine V-8 that revs like a dentist drill? Not here. So what is this Camaro doing lapping right behind the Porsche Cayman GT4 and ahead of the Audi R8 V-10 Plus?

It finds itself thusly positioned because, in the world of Camaros, the SS 1LE is indeed an exotic. The 1LE package brings magnetorheological dampers, stiffer springs and anti-roll bars, an electronically controlled limited-slip differential, big 14.6- inch front brakes with six-piston calipers, and forged aluminum wheels with Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar 3 rubber. Foreign supercars, beware; in Turn 1, the SS 1LE matches the 1.11 g’s of grip of the Ferrari 488GTB. In the uphill esses, the Camaro manages a higher average speed (121.6 mph) than the McLaren 570S.

The new Camaro behaves like the Z/28 we lapped two years ago, and most of its sector times are right on the heels of the Z/28’s, not to mention the cars in LL4 and LL5. It has the same supernatural grip and stability and the same super-accurate wheel control, but the 1LE isn’t as nervous as the Z/28. It doesn’t leap and skip over curbing as the Z/28 did, and in slow corners, such as Oak Tree and Bitch, the 1LE’s front end resists breaking free and just sticks. It’s only when the tires get hot and greasy that the Camaro will wag its tail or plow. Even then, it all happens in a progressive and nonthreatening manner.

Like the Cayman GT4, which is less than a second quicker, the SS 1LE lacks any bad dynamic habits. The body control, damping, brakes, and steering all feel right when the nose is aimed into the uphill esses at 129 mph. You’re left to curse the annoying sightlines and concentrate on quick shifts.

To look at the price, it’s clear the SS 1LE doesn’t know it’s not a bona fide exotic. We won’t tell if you won’t.

They seem impressed but not in love with it. IMO their favorite cars were M2, GT4, and GT350R.

The Grand Sport tested was manual

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

The MPH tells the tale. A 10mph delta is huge. This is even more huge in the twisties, as the higher MPH will absolutely destroy the low on the straits and out of the turns. This it what makes it so difficult to believe the v6 would outperform the GTPP with the same tires on the same day. It very well may outhandle the GTPP, but the GTPP does not handle THAT bad...and would absolutely murder the v6 on the straits. Of course, we will likely never know...as I doubt they would ever do a head to head on this.

The GT has the MPH to run mid 12's. The problem it has is the 60', or the difficulty of achieving a good one. The first 60 makes or breaks the 1/4 mile for a car. Cut a 2.2 in the mustang and it's going run low 13's. Cut a 1.8 and it's going to run mid 12's.

Sorry but the new GT isn't running mid 12s unless there are ideal conditions and track prep or hidden mods. I'll agree with the above poster I spend time at VMP and I see these new GTs turn high 12s to low 13s pass after pass. The quicker cars in the low 12s have mods and DRs. The 11-14 GTs are quicker.