[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by 67Builder

Where did I mention low to mid 30s? Low to mid 30s doesn't get you a track car which is what we're trying to compare.

I said if you have low 40k range. That puts you in the GT premium PP. Cross shop the best you can get in the low 40s in the Chevy lineup. It's the 2SS loaded or 1SS 1LE. Those are the best cars you can get for low 40k range. The price point for a 1LE isn't any higher than a GT Premium with the PP. But you just happen to get a way more capable car. 1LE will go for 42-43k after incentives. That price in Ford's lineup is a well optioned GT premium with PP and some other goodies.

If you have a budget of low 30s, yes you're looking at a GT with no options. But if you want a track car for low 30s, you're going to look at an import before you buy a GT.

Budget is the constraint. For the people that are going to shop at the 40kish range. The best Camaro is the 2ss or 1SS 1LE (depending on if you care about the performance package or not).

There's not a single GT350 out there right now selling for less than 60K. Stop trying to make believe that there's some magical land where people are cross shopping a 60K car and a 40K car. It doesn't happen. Price range is the only thing most people use as their method of comparison for new cars.

Most mustangs are sold in the non-premium variety. I believe this is a big reason GM dropped the ball on sales.

With that said, someone looking for a track ready car is NOT going to be looking for a heavy premium interior nor will they care about navigation or any of the other goodies. Most buy the base GT and add the performance pack option.

FYI, My 2016 GTPP fully loaded with performance pack was $37 out the door.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by FNxR3DNECK

The problem is that they just don't line up well no matter which way you look at it. The GT PP is $10k less than an SS 1LE but the 1LE destroys it in performance. The GT350 is $20k more than the SS 1LE with very similar performance so you could say the 1LE slays it in the price category. Really the closest comparison when it comes to price and performance is GT PP vs. V6 1LE, but the people considering the GT PP probably wouldn't want a V6 and also probably don't have the extra $10k to fork out on an SS 1LE.

This is the problem we face... and from the Chevy side of the fence I think we are on the right side of the equation!

Here is an interesting cross shopping comparison. The ZL1 is right in the middle and I expect will embarrass both.
$58k GT350TP
$62k ZL1 M6
$65.5k GT350R

It's interesting that Fanboy wants to argue that the GT350TP is the natural competitor for the 1LE. Ford went to some engineering and cost extremes to beat an option package then. Fact is the entire Camaro line punches above its weight.

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by FNxR3DNECK

But you also have to keep in mind that the gap between the GT350R and the 1LE was only 1.5 sec in the motor trend test.

I still stand by my statement that the GT PP and V6 1LE are the most comparable across the board (in most situations). One could even argue that the V6 1LE would be a better DD than the GT PP.

Yeah I agree. It's not GM's fault they dropped V6 in it......

[bballr4567]

Originally Posted by FNxR3DNECK

I'm not sure which layout they ran for this test but there are definitely straights at VIR.

That was sarcasm. They always run the grand west course.

[bballr4567]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Most mustangs are sold in the non-premium variety. I believe this is a big reason GM dropped the ball on sales.

With that said, someone looking for a track ready car is NOT going to be looking for a heavy premium interior nor will they care about navigation or any of the other goodies. Most buy the base GT and add the performance pack option.

FYI, My 2016 GTPP fully loaded with performance pack was $37 out the door.

Do you have any firm numbers to back up that claim?

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by FNxR3DNECK

But you also have to keep in mind that the gap between the GT350R and the 1LE was only 1.5 sec in the motor trend test.

I still stand by my statement that the GT PP and V6 1LE are the most comparable across the board (in most situations). One could even argue that the V6 1LE would be a better DD than the GT PP.

Performance on many tracks could very well be comparable (on stock tires).

The problem with daily driving is, you still have the blind spots, the small trunk, the low seating position etc. to live with. Hell, the fuel economy is even the same. The V6 1le has really no advantage (unless you factor in brand loyalty and subjective styling).

[FNxR3DNECK]

Originally Posted by f300v10

They run the 'grand west' version:

Thank you for clarifying!

And like I said straights!!! You have the front straight (turn 28 to turn 1), the fast sweeping middle section (turn 6 to turn 10) which isn't a true straight but is a high speed section, and the back straight (turn 12 to turn 13).

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by bballr4567

Do you have any firm numbers to back up that claim?

Nope.

Take something similar to this....

http://www.koonsbaltimoreford.com/ne...157a901a4d.htm

add the price of the performance pack combine that in a state that has a low vehicle tax cap.

[Memphis43]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

No-one in their right mind would cross shop the V6 1lE and the GT. Different engine sizes, different classes. The V6 turns great lap times, no doubt...but on any track with considerable straights, it won't have enough power to keep up. My guess is, there wont be a ton of V6 1LEs sold, as most would prefer a 1SS for a few pennies more.

Performance wise, Chevy is where it has been for the last 20 years, no doubt. Ford is where they want to be. Close enough and selling like hotcakes. Magazine times can only sell so many vehicles. For the rest of us, we need to pick the daily driver that suits us best.

For 10k more?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Performance on many tracks could very well be comparable (on stock tires).

The problem with daily driving is, you still have the blind spots, the small trunk, the low seating position etc. to live with. Hell, the fuel economy is even the same. The V6 1le has really no advantage (unless you factor in brand loyalty and subjective styling).

Everyone cried the blues about visibility in the 5th gen too. It's fine. Just takes some getting used to. I haven't hit or nearly hit anything cause I couldn't see out of my car.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Here is an interesting cross shopping comparison. The ZL1 is right in the middle and I expect will embarrass both.
$58k GT350TP
$62k ZL1 M6
$65.5k GT350R

It's interesting that Fanboy wants to argue that the GT350TP is the natural competitor for the 1LE. Ford went to some engineering and cost extremes to beat an option package then. Fact is the entire Camaro line punches above its weight.

I never argued for it being the natural competitor. It's what it has turned out to be however. The reason for the competition IS because the camaro punches above it's weight! It always has though. I don't know why anyone would want to argue against it.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by Thor142

Everyone cried the blues about visibility in the 5th gen too. It's fine. Just takes some getting used to. I haven't hit or nearly hit anything cause I couldn't see out of my car.

It's fine for you. I test drove one and hated it.

GM dropped the ball on this. The asked 5th Gen owners what they wanted instead of inquiring how to gain more market share from those who were buying the competition.

[67Builder]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

With that said, someone looking for a track ready car is NOT going to be looking for a heavy premium interior nor will they care about navigation or any of the other goodies. Most buy the base GT and add the performance pack option.

FYI, My 2016 GTPP fully loaded with performance pack was $37 out the door.

Exactly! That's why anyone with the low 40k budget that does want a track car will pick a 1LE. No nav, no extras. Just go fast in a factory warranty car.

While you may have gotten a good deal at 37K, i'm just going by the numbers on truecar on the average price paid for a GT Premium with PP and recaros as the closest comparison i can get with a 1LE package for package. Both go for low 40k (Stang just over 40K, Camaro just over 42K). At that price point, those are the two natural comparisons.
If you dropped someone off at a Ford and Chevy dealership with 40K and said go buy the best track car you can with that. That's what they'd be looking at.

Nobody with 40K is going to cross shop the 1LE and GT350. They can't. Until the dealers stop gouging and the prices for the 350 come down. It'll never be a good comparison to shop.
Now if someone with 60K wants to cross shop. They might consider the 1LE because it's apparently the better car. But that person with a 60k budget has the luxury of cross shopping the two, getting a better car and saving the money. Those people will be far fewer than the one with that 40K budget however.

Actually, given the budget of 40k, I'd get the focus with cup2s and recaros.

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

It's fine for you. I test drove one and hated it.

GM dropped the ball on this. The asked 5th Gen owners what they wanted instead of inquiring how to gain more market share from those who were buying the competition.

This was pretty dumb. A lot of 5th gen owners bad mouth the gen 6 more than the Mustang fans do. They said make us a gen 5 that smaller and lighter and faster. Then they cried and said they hated it LOL