[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by FNxR3DNECK

The problem is that they just don't line up well no matter which way you look at it. The GT PP is $10k less than an SS 1LE but the 1LE destroys it in performance. The GT350 is $20k more than the SS 1LE with very similar performance so you could say the 1LE slays it in the price category. Really the closest comparison when it comes to price and performance is GT PP vs. V6 1LE, but the people considering the GT PP probably wouldn't want a V6 and also probably don't have the extra $10k to fork out on an SS 1LE.

This is the problem we face... and from the Chevy side of the fence I think we are on the right side of the equation!

No-one in their right mind would cross shop the V6 1lE and the GT. Different engine sizes, different classes. The V6 turns great lap times, no doubt...but on any track with considerable straights, it won't have enough power to keep up. My guess is, there wont be a ton of V6 1LEs sold, as most would prefer a 1SS for a few pennies more.

Performance wise, Chevy is where it has been for the last 20 years, no doubt. Ford is where they want to be. Close enough and selling like hotcakes. Magazine times can only sell so many vehicles. For the rest of us, we need to pick the daily driver that suits us best.

[FNxR3DNECK]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

No-one in their right mind would cross shop the V6 1lE and the GT. Different engine sizes, different classes. The V6 turns great lap times, no doubt...but on any track with considerable straights, it won't have enough power to keep up. My guess is, there wont be a ton of V6 1LEs sold, as most would prefer a 1SS for a few pennies more.

Performance wise, Chevy is where it has been for the last 20 years, no doubt. Ford is where they want to be. Close enough and selling like hotcakes. Magazine times can only sell so many vehicles. For the rest of us, we need to pick the daily driver that suits us best.

My point exactly, most people will not cross shop the two that most closely compare.

But part of you argument doesn't add up... so VIR doesn't have considerable straights??? Have you seen the track?

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

No-one in their right mind would cross shop the V6 1lE and the GT. Different engine sizes, different classes. The V6 turns great lap times, no doubt...but on any track with considerable straights, it won't have enough power to keep up. My guess is, there wont be a ton of V6 1LEs sold, as most would prefer a 1SS for a few pennies more.

Performance wise, Chevy is where it has been for the last 20 years, no doubt. Ford is where they want to be. Close enough and selling like hotcakes. Magazine times can only sell so many vehicles. For the rest of us, we need to pick the daily driver that suits us best.

It will be interesting to see how many V6 1LEs are sold. A lot of people were calling for Chevy to build a V6 1LE. Now lets see how many actually put their money where their mouth is.

[HumanWiki]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

It will be interesting to see how many V6 1LEs are sold. A lot of people were calling for Chevy to build a V6 1LE. Now lets see how many actually put their money where their mouth is.

Hopefully not like the GenV Viper and all the things their community practically demanded... and then so many just sat there on lots.

Though, much different price point and hopefully, this will hit the sweet spot for those that want to track (or just like the look/feel) but can't quite afford the SS model for various reasons.. Or, simply don't want a V8.

[bballr4567]

Originally Posted by FNxR3DNECK

My point exactly, most people will not cross shop the two that most closely compare.

But part of you argument doesn't add up... so VIR doesn't have considerable straights??? Have you seen the track?

What are you talking about? There a no straights on VIR at all.

[FNxR3DNECK]

Originally Posted by bballr4567

What are you talking about? There a no straights on VIR at all.

I'm not sure which layout they ran for this test but there are definitely straights at VIR.

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

No-one in their right mind would cross shop the V6 1lE and the GT. Different engine sizes, different classes. The V6 turns great lap times, no doubt...but on any track with considerable straights, it won't have enough power to keep up. My guess is, there wont be a ton of V6 1LEs sold, as most would prefer a 1SS for a few pennies more.

You keep moving the goalpost to suit your needs. If you can't compare a V6 1LE with a GT, then why can you compare a SS 1LE with a non-R GT350. Different engine sizes, different classes....

And by the way, VIR is one of the biggest tracks with the some of the biggest straights, and the V6 1LE's lap time was 1.2 seconds faster than a GT (and that was with the PP)! I know it was in different years, but 1.2 seconds is a complete drubbing. And if the course gets shorter, the gap is only going to widen.

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

For the rest of us, we need to pick the daily driver that suits us best.

Wait, we are picking a daily driver now? I though we were looking for a track focused car? Goalposts keep moving......

If you are looking for a daily driver, why are you picking ANY 1LE?

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by FNxR3DNECK

My point exactly, most people will not cross shop the two that most closely compare.

But part of you argument doesn't add up... so VIR doesn't have considerable straights??? Have you seen the track?

Point taken.

I'd like to see what the GTPP can do on the same day with the same driver. I'd venture to say the GTPP would best it. The V6 has too much of a horsepower disadvantage to overcome...and the GTPP doesn't handle THAT bad.

Take the GT350R for example. The GT350R beat the 1le by over 4 seconds, yet was slower than the Z28. The same Z28 that was slower than the 1le in the latest motortrend ignition.

You can't take published times on different days (in this case, years) and by different drivers as gospel.

I'm sure this sounds like sour grapes, but the V6 Camaro IS down 100hp. I'll pull out the tire card on this one too. The mustangs tires are terrible. These stock times are great, but for anyone looking to track their car, they'll be throwing on the best tires available. It is run what you brung however.

[67Builder]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Low to mid 30's get you a GTPP. This is still cheaper than an SS, and $10k cheaper than a 1le. You are trying to use an argument against pitting the 1le against the GT350, but in doing so you have argued yourself into pitting the GTPP against the SS, not the 1le that is in a higher pricepoint.

Where did I mention low to mid 30s? Low to mid 30s doesn't get you a track car which is what we're trying to compare.

I said if you have low 40k range. That puts you in the GT premium PP. Cross shop the best you can get in the low 40s in the Chevy lineup. It's the 2SS loaded or 1SS 1LE. Those are the best cars you can get for low 40k range. The price point for a 1LE isn't any higher than a GT Premium with the PP. But you just happen to get a way more capable car. 1LE will go for 42-43k after incentives. That price in Ford's lineup is a well optioned GT premium with PP and some other goodies.

If you have a budget of low 30s, yes you're looking at a GT with no options. But if you want a track car for low 30s, you're going to look at an import before you buy a GT.

Budget is the constraint. For the people that are going to shop at the 40kish range. The best Camaro is the 2ss or 1SS 1LE (depending on if you care about the performance package or not).

There's not a single GT350 out there right now selling for less than 60K. Stop trying to make believe that there's some magical land where people are cross shopping a 60K car and a 40K car. It doesn't happen. Price range is the only thing most people use as their method of comparison for new cars.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

You keep moving the goalpost to suit your needs. If you can't compare a V6 1LE with a GT, then why can you compare a SS 1LE with a non-R GT350. Different engine sizes, different classes....

And by the way, VIR is one of the biggest tracks with the some of the biggest straights, and the V6 1LE's lap time was 1.2 seconds faster than a GT (and that was with the PP)! I know it was in different years, but 1.2 seconds is a complete drubbing. And if the course gets shorter, the gap is only going to widen.

V8 vs V6 my friend. Different engine classification. Naturally aspirated VS Forced induction. Different engine classification.

There are no moving goalpoasts.

Read my other post in regards to time. Different years and different drivers can mean many seconds.

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

Wait, we are picking a daily driver now? I though we were looking for a track focused car? Goalposts keep moving......

If you are looking for a daily driver, why are you picking ANY 1LE?

For the rest of us. Again, read.

[FNxR3DNECK]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Point taken.

I'd like to see what the GTPP can do on the same day with the same driver. I'd venture to say the GTPP would best it. The V6 has too much of a horsepower disadvantage to overcome...and the GTPP doesn't handle THAT bad.

Take the GT350R for example. The GT350R beat the 1le by over 4 seconds, yet was slower than the Z28. The same Z28 that was slower than the 1le in the latest motortrend ignition.

You can't take published times on different days (in this case, years) and by different drivers as gospel.

I'm sure this sounds like sour grapes, but the V6 Camaro IS down 100hp. I'll pull out the tire card on this one too. The mustangs tires are terrible. These stock times are great, but for anyone looking to track their car, they'll be throwing on the best tires available. It is run what you brung however.

But you also have to keep in mind that the gap between the GT350R and the 1LE was only 1.5 sec in the motor trend test.

I still stand by my statement that the GT PP and V6 1LE are the most comparable across the board (in most situations). One could even argue that the V6 1LE would be a better DD than the GT PP.

[f300v10]

Originally Posted by FNxR3DNECK

I'm not sure which layout they ran for this test but there are definitely straights at VIR.

They run the 'grand west' version:

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Point taken.

I'd like to see what the GTPP can do on the same day with the same driver. I'd venture to say the GTPP would best it. The V6 has too much of a horsepower disadvantage to overcome...and the GTPP doesn't handle THAT bad.

Take the GT350R for example. The GT350R beat the 1le by over 4 seconds, yet was slower than the Z28. The same Z28 that was slower than the 1le in the latest motortrend ignition.

You can't take published times on different days (in this case, years) and by different drivers as gospel.

I'm sure this sounds like sour grapes, but the V6 Camaro IS down 100hp. I'll pull out the tire card on this one too. The mustangs tires are terrible. These stock times are great, but for anyone looking to track their car, they'll be throwing on the best tires available. It is run what you brung however.

How do you know you've never had it on a track? Completely different worlds from putting down some back road. I know. I do go to the track.