[Speedy1975]

The CSV logs aren't the easiest to manipulate without a viewer to go with them, but I did drop them to Excel and do some line charts. I couldn't see AFR in there, so I'm assuming you didn't log that.

It looks OK to me. You get about 2.5° of STKR right when you mash the throttle. The total timing would be about 5° at that point, which is not out of the ordinary, but with the 2.5 STKR the total is about 2.5. It only lasts for a brief moment and timing starts to ramp in.

Something could be banging somewhere causing that initial STKR reading. Knock sensors just pick up sounds, not only engine sounds. On the Challenger we had to be careful about exhaust pieces tapping things, etc when the torque of the motor winds up.

In a nutshell I think it's fine. I didn't see any more STKR at all in your logs, but again this was just a rough scan through Excel graphing and charting. I'm not sure if there's a free viewer out there for these?

[Atomic Ed]

Dave,

You can manipulate the graphs from SCT data logging software, sort them down to simple displays, expand them, and then take a screen shot. That's what did to get the initial graphs I posted.

[Daves1SS]

Thanks for looking at it Speedy. I had looked at it in Excel also. I do know one thing that is loose, and that's my drivers strut tower brace that holds the catch can. The installer stripped out the bolts so they're barely tight and the catch can could easily be causing false KR. I think I'm going to have them fix that as opposed to drilling and tapping myself. After all, they are the ones that messed it up.

I'll boot up the laptop this weekend and do what you said Ed. I'll mess around and explore the live link program.....

[Daves1SS]

Speedy was gracious enough to modify my logs into a readable format. Thanks again man!

[Speedy1975]

No worries. Not too hard to do once you slice and dice the data. Curious what gears you were in there? I'm guessing 3rd and 4th?

[Daves1SS]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

No worries. Not too hard to do once you slice and dice the data. Curious what gears you were in there? I'm guessing 3rd and 4th?

2nd and 3rd mostly from what I remember.....

[Speedy1975]

3rd gear should be pretty decent for testing, but 4th is 1:1 in the M6 I believe. If you can do so SAFELY, I'd be curious what a 4th gear pull looks like. You can literally get in to 4th, turn on your data logger ease the RPMs up to about 2500 - 3000 and then roll to the floor and take it to the rev limiter. Then stop your data logger recording. This will make the log small and easy to review.

If you look in the graph above, I was thinking that last area where you go WOT was 4th, but the timing was a bit lower than the other gears. Probably IAT related as usually when IATs rise the tuner drops the timing. That last part the timing was 7° in the graph above. The IAT was 71C (160F) so you may pick up some performance cooling that a bit with a larger heat exchanger or something if interested.

[Daves1SS]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

3rd gear should be pretty decent for testing, but 4th is 1:1 in the M6 I believe. If you can do so SAFELY, I'd be curious what a 4th gear pull looks like. You can literally get in to 4th, turn on your data logger ease the RPMs up to about 2500 - 3000 and then roll to the floor and take it to the rev limiter. Then stop your data logger recording. This will make the log small and easy to review.

If you look in the graph above, I was thinking that last area where you go WOT was 4th, but the timing was a bit lower than the other gears. Probably IAT related as usually when IATs rise the tuner drops the timing. That last part the timing was 7° in the graph above. The IAT was 71C (160F) so you may pick up some performance cooling that a bit with a larger heat exchanger or something if interested.

I don't have anywhere safe that I can do a full 4th gear pull. No way no how.
HOWEVER, I'm dyno'ing the car late afternoon October 8th. I will log it then during one of the first 4th gear pulls. That should be ideal. Today I got the potential false knock source fixed, so that's good. And one thing I have noticed over the last few days is that the car seems to be getting faster. Could it be taking the ECM up to two weeks to fully adapt?

[Atomic Ed]

Originally Posted by Daves1SS

I don't have anywhere safe that I can do a full 4th gear pull. No way no how.
HOWEVER, I'm dyno'ing the car late afternoon October 8th. I will log it then during one of the first 4th gear pulls. That should be ideal. Today I got the potential false knock source fixed, so that's good. And one thing I have noticed over the last few days is that the car seems to be getting faster. Could it be taking the ECM up to two weeks to fully adapt?

So how did you get the false knock source fixed?

[Atomic Ed]

Haven't had much time to play lately, but I did a little educational searching last night. I found this Edelbrock IAT table from an older corvette. Somewhat surprised about how low of an IAT they start pulling timing. To me, this seems very conservative.



I'm going to attack the heat soak/IATs sometime in the future. I've never seen this low of a table on a turbo tune. Is this normal for a PD tune? Since I'm in the 120 - 180 F IAT range on a hard pull, I'm probably leaving a lot of power off the table if the above table is representative of Edelbrock's conservative tune. (50+ hp?)

Maybe I'll start a separate thread to open discussion on ideas and opinions on heat management.

[Daves1SS]

Ed, the installer of my SC kit for whatever reason stripped out the two bolts holding the strut tower brace to the strut tower. They were barely tight, and they are holding the Mishimoto catch can bracket/can. So you could wiggle the catch can and it would make noise. That is my best guess as to what could have been causing false KR. They fixed it when I went by there last night.

I'm sure Edelbrock pulls timing early so they feel better about providing that 3/36 powertrain warranty. After the warranty period is up, I'm sure we'll all find some extra HP from a custom tune that's more agressive. But even if conservative, I'm extremely happy with the power my car puts out. And I swear it's getting faster too. Especially over the last 3-4 days, the power is greater. I've been opening & adding a tad of coolant to the Edelbrock filler neck system every morning before starting the car for the last few days. I think it still had some air in it, and I also think it took a while for the car's ECM to fully adjust.

The power seems downright silly now. It's a lot for a daily driver. But I love it. LOVE it.

[Atomic Ed]

A couple of new data points.

First, the limiting orifice in the vacuum line did seem to eliminate the minor surging when at a steady speed on the highway. It was hardly noticeable to begin with, but this mod got rid of it completely with no reduction in boost response. However, it did not reduce the upper rpm/boost fluctuations.

Secondly, I had the hood up on the car, thinking about how to tackle the heat soaking. It suddenly struck me that the intercooler "bricks" in the supercharger body are the high point in the intercooling system.

I jacked up the front end of the car and just started the intercooler pump without starting the car. Sure enough, I got about 3/4 of a filler neck of air out. Filled the neck back up to the full mark and repeated this process about a dozen times until the system quit burping air. In the end, I was able to get about a pint of displaced air out of the system. Pretty clear to me that I had air trapped in the intercooler "bricks". I didn't get a chance to log IATs on a hard pull, but around town, the IATs look to be running about 15-20* F cooler!

May try to get some logs tomorrow if I can.

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by Atomic Ed

A couple of new data points.

First, the limiting orifice in the vacuum line did seem to eliminate the minor surging when at a steady speed on the highway. It was hardly noticeable to begin with, but this mod got rid of it completely with no reduction in boost response. However, it did not reduce the upper rpm/boost fluctuations.

Secondly, I had the hood up on the car, thinking about how to tackle the heat soaking. It suddenly struck me that the intercooler "bricks" in the supercharger body are the high point in the intercooling system.

I jacked up the front end of the car and just started the intercooler pump without starting the car. Sure enough, I got about 3/4 of a filler neck of air out. Filled the neck back up to the full mark and repeated this process about a dozen times until the system quit burping air. In the end, I was able to get about a pint of displaced air out of the system. Pretty clear to me that I had air trapped in the intercooler "bricks". I didn't get a chance to log IATs on a hard pull, but around town, the IATs look to be running about 15-20* F cooler!

May try to get some logs tomorrow if I can.

That's good news. Air is no bueno.

That timing table you posted looks right to me. Most tunes start to pull timing when IATs cross the 150° mark, especially on stock pistons. The typical weak point I've seen is the rings and ring lands. As the cylinder temps rise, the rings expand, and if they get too hot they'll touch end to end. With no where to go they start to deflect and will snap off the edge of the piston. On the HEMI we almost always see this on the intake side if memory serves. Then you got a 1/2 long 3/16th inch thick piece (or pieces) of piston flying around in the cylinder tearing up the heads and valves. Definitely better safe than sorry.

[Daves1SS]

So if you just turn the ignition to on without starting the car, the pump will run? I might have to do the same as you Ed, although I feel I have gotten most of the air out of mine now.