Debating on future upgrade for my 16 SS engine need advice

ChrisCoffey · 08-20-2016, 08:19 PM

Hi I have been roaming these forums for awhile and I appreciate all the great info that is given on the forums so with that being said I have been debating on what would be my best option for an upgrade later. I am debating on either grabbing myself a E-Force/Whipple S/C for my LT1 or possibly selling my engine and upgrading to an LT4. I really don't plan on racing on a drag and I want to retain the DD of whatever I choose. I do , however, like to "feel" the take off of the vehicle and @455 stock HP it isn't enough for me just yet.

I would appreciate some of your pros/cons of either of those so I can finally mentally take my choice and be done with it as it's driving me insane going back and forth in my head. I have been reading and there are good numbers on both the LT1 and LT4 obviously but what concerns me is the constant "piston popping" off problem of the LT1 I keep reading about. I believe that around 600-700 rwhp and 600ish torque would be where I want to be but what of those would be the longest lasting and durable upgrade in the long run. Thanks again for any and all advice as I'm sure quite a few of you can direct me in this.

AGP Turbo · 08-21-2016, 10:32 AM

Your stock LT1 is capable of those power levels, we're got those power levels out of stock vettes for years. There is the issues with the high compression engine and needing an octane boost over pump gas in that power area. E85 is the best solution for PD blower cars if you have it available and upgrade the fuel system for it. Or if you go cenrti or turbo then meth injection is a super easy way to go.

Now if you want more power or want room to grow, then start with the LT4 and a cenrti or turbo. That makes it so much easier and opens up a lot of possibilities.

ADM PERFORMANCE · 08-21-2016, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGP Turbo

Your stock LT1 is capable of those power levels, we're got those power levels out of stock vettes for years. There is the issues with the high compression engine and needing an octane boost over pump gas in that power area. E85 is the best solution for PD blower cars if you have it available and upgrade the fuel system for it. Or if you go cenrti or turbo then meth injection is a super easy way to go.

Now if you want more power or want room to grow, then start with the LT4 and a cenrti or turbo. That makes it so much easier and opens up a lot of possibilities.

as that's the way we are building them.

ParisTNDude · 08-21-2016, 08:07 PM

I would and may do the E-force or Procharger. I will come into some money in the winter months and may pull the trigger on FI. You can get 620-650 at the crank and that should be plenty for normal people...lol. Those who own a Camaro aren't exactly normal...in a good sense.

ChrisCoffey · 08-21-2016, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGP Turbo

Your stock LT1 is capable of those power levels, we're go those power levels out of stock vettes for years. There is the issues with the high compression engine and needing an octane boost over pump gas in that power area. E85 is the best solution for PD blower cars if you have it available and upgrade the fuel system for it. Or if you go cenrti or turbo then meth injection is a super easy way to go.

Now if you want more power or want room to grow, then start with the LT4 and a cenrti or turbo. That makes it so much easier and opens up a lot of possibilities.

First off I want to thank everyone here for the replies about this. We have E85 around the area so if I stuck with the LT1 I would go that route but with that being said I do think you are right in the sense of having the LT4 for "more power" later if possible. I can't really say with 100% certainty that I would be satisfied with the previous RWHP numbers but I am quite certain for most people maybe including myself that's the baseline at least.

With the information you posted about the LT4 it brings about another question possibly if i go that route to upgrade and have for more power at a later date. What other changes would I need for the 16 SS other than the LT4 fuel pump to make that change possible? I wasn't sure if I had to change out all the electronics like the ECU and wiring differences or they are pretty much the same except for a new tuning profile. I haven't came across any definitive answer to this in the forums for a LT1 to LT4 change over but if it's here I apologize in advance for overlooking it. I appreciate any response again gang. Thanks!

hawk16 · 08-21-2016, 08:48 PM

I'm considering an eforce, but by the time you upgrade wheels and tires and brakes it might be cost efficient to upgrade to a zl1.

toohighpsi · 08-21-2016, 10:57 PM

I'm running a Maggie - completely stock except for the blower at the tune of 10.8s @ just a tick under 130mph. Saw the Edelbrock up close for the first time last week, hadn't paid much attention to them in the past until I reviewed the data that was posted last week by one of our members. One thing that I did notice was the size of the intercooler cores in that design. They were a bit smaller than I would have expected, I guess I kinda see the route that Callaway chose with their design (adding a 3rd cooler) to boost the IAT cooling.

Camaro is a heavy car, it needs torque to get it off the line, we have turbo and centrifugal owners here on the list. To date they haven't been able to match the times run by the Maggie PD on a stock engine.

If you have plans to go all out - high stall torque converters, etc then you'll be able to overcome the torque deficiencies of the other options out there, but up to about 850 RWHP you'll be best suited with a PD.

AGP Turbo · 08-22-2016, 10:07 PM

The LT4 engine comes complete with the larger pump and injectors. Your ECU will run it fine. While you are doing the swap you should have a cam with the larger fuel lobe put in with all the parts that go with that. Then you are ready for 1000+whp if you ever want to in the future.

Atomic Ed · 08-22-2016, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toohighpsi

Saw the Edelbrock up close for the first time last week, hadn't paid much attention to them in the past until I reviewed the data that was posted last week by one of our members. One thing that I did notice was the size of the intercooler cores in that design. They were a bit smaller than I would have expected, I guess I kinda see the route that Callaway chose with their design (adding a 3rd cooler) to boost the IAT cooling.

Funny you should mention that toohighpsi. I've been looking at adding a secondary heat exchanger to supplement the Edelbrock. The front is already loaded with the Edelbrock HX, the condenser and the radiator. A secondary HX to one side would also add volume to the system. May also need a stronger fan to pull through that 5-6 inches thick of intercooler grill work.

Something to play around with.

ChrisCoffey · 08-29-2016, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGP Turbo

The LT4 engine comes complete with the larger pump and injectors. Your ECU will run it fine. While you are doing the swap you should have a cam with the larger fuel lobe put in with all the parts that go with that. Then you are ready for 1000+whp if you ever want to in the future.

That sounds awesome. I found a cam with a 32% fuel lobe and was wondering if I ever did go for the "big four" 1000hp is there any particular point the afm/dod needs to be done or can that be kept at that hp range? I was just wondering because I wanted to maintain DD driving if at all possible and some mpg but I was curious the various points to where certain things fail and need the transition. Thanks again.

AGP Turbo · 08-30-2016, 12:04 AM

At the power level that you need a big fuel lobe cam, you also should be getting rid of the DOD. It all goes hand in hand with surpassing that power level. And all of this coincides with going to a forged piston LT4 engine. The logic tree seems to say you ether leave the LT1 alone or fully build it up all at once.

Something we found with the LS3's that is starting to look similar on the LT1. The engine is limited by the pistons before the cam. You can max the pistons out on the stock cam just fine. So with the cost and effort of adding a cam to the LT1 (way more than LS3), I would always leave it as the last resort. *E85 is a bit of a game changer on this issue though.

08-20-2016, 08:19 PM	#1
ChrisCoffey Drives: 2016 Camaro 1SS Hyper Blue Metallic Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: TN Posts: 49	Debating on future upgrade for my 16 SS engine need advice Hi I have been roaming these forums for awhile and I appreciate all the great info that is given on the forums so with that being said I have been debating on what would be my best option for an upgrade later. I am debating on either grabbing myself a E-Force/Whipple S/C for my LT1 or possibly selling my engine and upgrading to an LT4. I really don't plan on racing on a drag and I want to retain the DD of whatever I choose. I do , however, like to "feel" the take off of the vehicle and @455 stock HP it isn't enough for me just yet. I would appreciate some of your pros/cons of either of those so I can finally mentally take my choice and be done with it as it's driving me insane going back and forth in my head. I have been reading and there are good numbers on both the LT1 and LT4 obviously but what concerns me is the constant "piston popping" off problem of the LT1 I keep reading about. I believe that around 600-700 rwhp and 600ish torque would be where I want to be but what of those would be the longest lasting and durable upgrade in the long run. Thanks again for any and all advice as I'm sure quite a few of you can direct me in this. __________________ "Ask not what the camaro can do for you but what you can do with your camaro."

08-21-2016, 08:07 PM	#4
ParisTNDude Owning SSes for 50 Years Drives: Sharkskin Grey LT1 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Paris, TN Posts: 3,139 View My Garage	I would and may do the E-force or Procharger. I will come into some money in the winter months and may pull the trigger on FI. You can get 620-650 at the crank and that should be plenty for normal people...lol. Those who own a Camaro aren't exactly normal...in a good sense. __________________ The new ride: 2023 Camaro, LT1, Sharkskin Grey Previous Performance Cars: 1966 Chevelle SS 4M, 2010 Corvette 6M 1968 Dodge Charger R/T Auto 2012 1SS 6M 1982 Corvette Auto 2010 1SS 6A 1984 Corvette Auto 2016 2SS 8A 1999 Camaro Auto 2017 HBM 1SS 1le 2002 C5 Corvette 6M 2018 2SS 2006 Corvette Auto 2023 Camaro LT1

08-21-2016, 10:32 AM	#2
AGP Turbo Drives: All things Turbocharged Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: AZ Posts: 1,199	Your stock LT1 is capable of those power levels, we're got those power levels out of stock vettes for years. There is the issues with the high compression engine and needing an octane boost over pump gas in that power area. E85 is the best solution for PD blower cars if you have it available and upgrade the fuel system for it. Or if you go cenrti or turbo then meth injection is a super easy way to go. Now if you want more power or want room to grow, then start with the LT4 and a cenrti or turbo. That makes it so much easier and opens up a lot of possibilities.

08-21-2016, 08:48 PM	#6
hawk16 Drives: 2016 2ss summit white m6 Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: eastern wa Posts: 26	I'm considering an eforce, but by the time you upgrade wheels and tires and brakes it might be cost efficient to upgrade to a zl1.

08-21-2016, 10:57 PM	#7
toohighpsi Drives: 2015 C7 Z06 M7 Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: So-Cal Posts: 665	I'm running a Maggie - completely stock except for the blower at the tune of 10.8s @ just a tick under 130mph. Saw the Edelbrock up close for the first time last week, hadn't paid much attention to them in the past until I reviewed the data that was posted last week by one of our members. One thing that I did notice was the size of the intercooler cores in that design. They were a bit smaller than I would have expected, I guess I kinda see the route that Callaway chose with their design (adding a 3rd cooler) to boost the IAT cooling. Camaro is a heavy car, it needs torque to get it off the line, we have turbo and centrifugal owners here on the list. To date they haven't been able to match the times run by the Maggie PD on a stock engine. If you have plans to go all out - high stall torque converters, etc then you'll be able to overcome the torque deficiencies of the other options out there, but up to about 850 RWHP you'll be best suited with a PD.

08-22-2016, 10:07 PM	#8
AGP Turbo Drives: All things Turbocharged Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: AZ Posts: 1,199	The LT4 engine comes complete with the larger pump and injectors. Your ECU will run it fine. While you are doing the swap you should have a cam with the larger fuel lobe put in with all the parts that go with that. Then you are ready for 1000+whp if you ever want to in the future.

08-30-2016, 12:04 AM	#11
AGP Turbo Drives: All things Turbocharged Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: AZ Posts: 1,199	At the power level that you need a big fuel lobe cam, you also should be getting rid of the DOD. It all goes hand in hand with surpassing that power level. And all of this coincides with going to a forged piston LT4 engine. The logic tree seems to say you ether leave the LT1 alone or fully build it up all at once. Something we found with the LS3's that is starting to look similar on the LT1. The engine is limited by the pistons before the cam. You can max the pistons out on the stock cam just fine. So with the cost and effort of adding a cam to the LT1 (way more than LS3), I would always leave it as the last resort. *E85 is a bit of a game changer on this issue though.

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