[Richard0nee]

Originally Posted by hotlap

From a roll (power). 350 has advantage

I can be wrong, but in my experiences the m6 is stronger from a roll vs the a8. I never tested it, pushed it hard in the a8 but on my m6 a quick downshift def throws me hard back in my seat.

From a dig the A8 is awesome especially with launching. Amazing torque from both trannies!

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Trap speed is what you want, not ET. Trap speed will give you a better idea of what a vehicle is capable of while ET will show you what the driver is capable of. The GT350 (non R) traps in the high 117mph range while the SS traps in the mid-low 114mph range. The GT is right in the 112mph range. The GT350 R is in the 119 mph range. Obviously there are exceptions to this, as conditions can affect these greatly. I've heard of all 3 trapping higher, and all 3 trapping lower.

FYI, for as heavy as everyone makes the mustang out to be...the listed curb weights are closer than you would think. The GT350 is listed as 31 lbs heavier than the SS while the GT is 57.

The gt350 has a base of 3760, then add the electric package and it's near 3790. So where is the 31lb difference? Also, you need to add the PP to the GT to even be comparable, and those are flirting 3780lbs.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by 13vertss/r's

IMHO, trap speed just shows which car has more hp. Torque gets you going and will be used way more often the high mph.

You must not be familiar with drag racing. It's not really debateable. Trap speed is indicative of what a vehicle is capable of from a roll or stop. Throw slicks on both and you'll see what I mean. You getting too caught up on torque. If a car is capable of 118mph+ trap speeds and is not running low 11's it has a traction issue, not a torque issue.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by 13vertss/r's

The gt350 has a base of 3760, then add the electric package and it's near 3790. So where is the 31lb difference? Also, you need to add the PP to the GT to even be comparable, and those are flirting 3780lbs.

The base mustang GT is listed at 3705lbs. This is the most popular option as it's the cheapest, and the one you are most likely to run into on the street. The Camaro 1SS is listed at 3685. These cars are much closer in weight than most people realize.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

You must not be familiar with drag racing. It's not really debateable. Trap speed is indicative of what a vehicle is capable of from a roll or stop. Throw slicks on both and you'll see what I mean. You getting too caught up on torque. If a car is capable of 118mph+ trap speeds and is not running low 11's it has a traction issue, not a torque issue.

Trap speed is just a bragging right. No awards are given for trap speeds. Also, which cars give high trap speeds? High hp cars. The higher trap the higher hp. Show me a low hp car with high trap speeds.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

You must not be familiar with drag racing. It's not really debateable. Trap speed is indicative of what a vehicle is capable of from a roll or stop. Throw slicks on both and you'll see what I mean. You getting too caught up on torque. If a car is capable of 118mph+ trap speeds and is not running low 11's it has a traction issue, not a torque issue.

My ZL1 would trap 119 mph but launching 556 lb-ft on stock tires was nearly impossible. The GT350 has the opposite problem. No low end torque. It was built for speed.

There’s no shame in the GT350’s 4.3-second zero-to-60-mph run, or its 12.5-second quarter-mile time. The car is not set up for drag-race launches. Drop the clutch below 4000 rpm and the car will bog a bit as the fat rear tires maintain their death grip on the pavement. Launch it at or above 4000 rpm, while the engine nears its torque peak, and you will roast those tires

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...y-gt350-page-3

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

The base mustang GT is listed at 3705lbs. This is the most popular option as it's the cheapest, and the one you are most likely to run into on the street. The Camaro 1SS is listed at 3685. These cars are much closer in weight than most people realize.

True, but when you want to compare the SS to a GT, the base has no chance. Even the PP looses but is much closer even tho it's heavier. To many want to compare weight from a base GT to a SS, then say the performance numbers are close as they give PP numbers for the comparison. Can't have it both ways. People who buy a base GT are just looking for a cheap straight line car.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by 13vertss/r's

Trap speed is just a bragging right. No awards are given for trap speeds. Also, which cars give high trap speeds? High hp cars. The higher trap the higher hp. Show me a low hp car with high trap speeds.

Exactly! It shows what the vehicle is capable of given adequate traction. You can tell a vehicles capability regardless of launch given its trap speed. Toque doesn't tell you squat.

Originally Posted by hotlap

My ZL1 would trap 119 mph but launching 556 lb-ft on stock tires was nearly impossible. The GT350 has the opposite problem. No low end torque. It was built for speed.

Not at all! What they lack in engine torque they make up in rear whee toque from gearing. Throw slicks on both and you'll see comparable 1/4 times.

Originally Posted by 13vertss/r's

True, but when you want to compare the SS to a GT, the base has no chance. Even the PP looses but is much closer even tho it's heavier. To many want to compare weight from a base GT to a SS, then say the performance numbers are close as they give PP numbers for the comparison. Can't have it both ways. People who buy a base GT are just looking for a cheap straight line car.

Has no chance where? If the 1SS can hold its own with the right driver against a Gt350, a GT can certainly do the same against the SS. The GT and PP turn the same 1/4 times in....which is what most really care about.

It's funny, just a few short years ago the GT was competition around the track with the BMW M3, yet the newer, better handling version is relegated to straight line duty only? It's not nearly as far behind as some of you make it seem to be.

[ULTRAZLS1]

114 trap for camaro and 112 for the GT?

Have you seen the fast list? Condition dependant I understand but GM rates them at 115-116. People have trapped up to ~119 stock so far.

When they have been tested same day it's not a 2mph difference. That should end the argument right there. The tests were rigged im sure right

On average the GT is down 3-4 mph and about a half second in the quarter. If you look at hero times it's even worse. 11.7 stock with a tire. 11.9 totally stock. Haven't seen a stock s550 do better than 12.5 and it's been on the road longer.

It's not close stock for stock. Sorry. And yes an SS is much closer to a 350 in every way than it is to a GT. You are also forgetting gearing. A gt350 isn't set up for the 1320. A gt350 and an SS are very close in the 1/4. Closer than GT vs SS.

At the moment an SS has actually been faster than a 350 both stock in the quarter mile. And you think a GT has a chance? GTFO with that horse manure. You can't be serious.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Exactly! It shows what the vehicle is capable of given adequate traction. You can tell a vehicles capability regardless of launch given its trap speed. Toque doesn't tell you squat.



Not at all! What they lack in engine torque they make up in rear whee toque from gearing. Throw slicks on both and you'll see comparable 1/4 times.



Has no chance where? If the 1SS can hold its own with the right driver against a Gt350, a GT can certainly do the same against the SS. The GT and PP turn the same 1/4 times in....which is what most really care about.

It's funny, just a few short years ago the GT was competition around the track with the BMW M3, yet the newer, better handling version is relegated to straight line duty only? It's not nearly as far behind as some of you make it seem to be.

Nobody will argue that the gt350 will have a higher trap over the Camaro, it does have 71hp more, and hp is where high trap speeds come from.


The base GT has no chance over the SS in any race track, road course, lateral g, figure 8, and braking. Yes it does well in the 1/4 mile over a PPGT, and that is because it's lighter.


Your saying a base GT competed with a M3 around a track? I find that very hard to believe that it wasn't a track package GT. To many generalized a GTPP numbers and reviews by saying all GT will do the same thing. Not going to happen.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

114 trap for camaro and 112 for the GT?

Have you seen the fast list? Condition dependant I understand but GM rates them at 115-116. People have trapped up to ~119 stock so far.

When they have been tested same day it's not a 2mph difference. That should end the argument right there. The tests were rigged im sure right

On average the GT is down 3-4 mph and about a half second in the quarter. If you look at hero times it's even worse. 11.7 stock with a tire. 11.9 totally stock. Haven't seen a stock s550 do better than 12.5 and it's been on the road longer.

It's not close stock for stock. Sorry. And yes an SS is much closer to a 350 in every way than it is to a GT. You are also forgetting gearing. A gt350 isn't set up for the 1320. A gt350 and an SS are very close in the 1/4. Closer than GT vs SS.

At the moment an SS has actually been faster than a 350 both stock in the quarter mile. And you think a GT has a chance? GTFO with that horse manure. You can't be serious.

You seem to be living in your own little world over here. Get out and look at the numbers. Yes, with rediculius air, and car can trap 3 mph higher than average. That doesn't mean squat compared to the average joe that is running mid 13s because he can't drive worth a hill of beans. The reason the gt350 isn't posting faster numbers is due to traction. It is a high dollar road car and no one wants to throw slicks on it to see what it can do.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by 13vertss/r's

Nobody will argue that the gt350 will have a higher trap over the Camaro, it does have 71hp more, and hp is where high trap speeds come from.


The base GT has no chance over the SS in any race track, road course, lateral g, figure 8, and braking. Yes it does well in the 1/4 mile over a PPGT, and that is because it's lighter.


Your saying a base GT competed with a M3 around a track? I find that very hard to believe that it wasn't a track package GT. To many generalized a GTPP numbers and reviews by saying all GT will do the same thing. Not going to happen.

My whole point was the higher track speed means more potential. When these races are close, it's because of unequal drivers.

And yes, the previous s197 mustang was narrowly eeked out on the track by the previous m3.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/bmw/m...m3-comparison/

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

My whole point was the higher track speed means more potential. When these races are close, it's because of unequal drivers.

And yes, the previous s197 mustang was narrowly eeked out on the track by the previous m3.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/bmw/m...m3-comparison/

Again, you keep referring a base GT did this. It was a track package GT. It takes a track or performance package GT to compete, a base will not.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Not at all! What they lack in engine torque they make up in rear whee toque from gearing. Throw slicks on both and you'll see comparable 1/4 times.

Gearing multiplies available torque. At zero rpm there is none and the Voodoo needs time to get into its power band. The C&D article I referenced said it plainly and you can see it in the curves. Below 4000 rpm the Voodoo bogs against the load. There "is no debate" but no shame either. It's not a drag engine.

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

]Has no chance where? If the 1SS can hold its own with the right driver against a Gt350, a GT can certainly do the same against the SS. The GT and PP turn the same 1/4 times in....which is what most really care about.

Both cars fast list and all the reviews show a minimum 0.5 second gap between the GT and SS. With a zero reaction time and a SS driver sleeping at the light, you would have a chance of getting the win but the SS et will still be 0.5 sec better. The best ever GT et can be easily replicated by an average SS driver in positive DA