[TheMaGikDucK]

Originally Posted by V8SS

I had an m4 and it was well worth the extra money to me. Now I have a 17 1ss and I love it. This is my first American V8 and I love the platform, chassis and design.
Performance stock to stock is basically the same Camaro to M4 but a major difference (for the performance minded) is that the M4 only needs is a tune ($1200) with flex fuel (no kit needed)e85/91 and your making over 500/550 to the wheels.

I had down pipes and full exhaust with intake and was making 530/615 on a mustang dyno.
To me that's bang for your buck, yes the exhaust in total was $4000 but truly the exhaust is mostly for increase in sound.

Looks are subjective.
Interior, audio, interior materials go to the M4
interior design better in m4 (subjective)
OH and the best part is that I was getting 35-40 mpg on my weekly Los Angeles to Santa Barbara drive!! Yes while tuned making the power I stated. Factory DI FI combos are amazing!

So to me stock for stock the Camaro is there in performance but that's about it. I love my 17 1ss but it isn't a m4.

But if we play the game "well for XX amount I can modify it and get XX horsepower" then its very easy to say, well with $7-8k into a camaro you can easily be over 600 whp (I'm assuming eaton here), which is still nowhere near the cost of an M4.

[evanescent03]

Originally Posted by V8SS

I had an m4 and it was well worth the extra money to me.

So to me stock for stock the Camaro is there in performance but that's about it. I love my 17 1ss but it isn't a m4.

I had an M3 with bms stage 1 and it was a fantastic car. Much much better all-rounder (I have kids who exclusively ride in the Yukon now). The Camaro feels a lot more like a sports car to me with the much heavier clutch, beefy shifter, and gnarly exhaust (NPP). the adjustable suspension is also more noticeably different between modes on the Camaro. I do miss the classy look/feel of the M3 but I only commute 6 miles round trip 6 days/week. At the track, I don't care about the niceties so the Camaro is a great option for me.

I don't regret the decision but again, I do miss the far nicer interior at times. It was a better place to be as far as visibility, features, and it didn't have a ton of problems before 3k miles like the SS has had.... awful quality control on my SS. Ugh.

[fzr100098]

If a nice interior is your top priority, most people rate Audi significantly ahead - S5 or RS5? What are the major problems with your SS?

Performance for the dollar is my top priority, and I don't like paying outrageous Audi/BMW parts/repair bills.

[TMasticTB91]

Just about lost it when I read this post (#117, page 6) on the bimmer forum post:

Personally, I'm not impressed with the Camaro - I don't care for it's "throwback" looks. To be completely honest, I have not even received my M4 yet. I have only enjoyed a brief test drive. My "subjective" opinion - I love this car, plain and simple. I test drove a Camaro last year (not the SS) and I was not impressed at all - the car was sloppy, all over the place, and lacked any real power. It certainly didn't hold up to my 2001 E46 Wagon. While I was driving the Camaro, I only had one word for the experience: "ewww".

The V6 has been lauded as a great engine in the V6 ranks, and even the T4 has its' turbo peppiness.

Looks are subjective, of course, but I've never heard or read anything referring to "lack(ing) any real power" in a Camaro.

But alas, the delicious tears of the salty bimmer owners was definitely an entertaining read

[Slem]

Originally Posted by TMasticTB91

Just about lost it when I read this post (#117, page 6) on the bimmer forum post:



The V6 has been lauded as a great engine in the V6 ranks, and even the T4 has its' turbo peppiness.

Looks are subjective, of course, but I've never heard or read anything referring to "lack(ing) any real power" in a Camaro.

But alas, the delicious tears of the salty bimmer owners was definitely an entertaining read

That bmw guy is a clueless individual

[RaiderSSFan68]

Originally Posted by Slem

That bmw guy is a clueless individual

Classic sour grapes.

[BahamaTodd]

Considering the E46 M3 runs mid 13's, no way his E46 wagon would be as quick as a V6 6th gen.

[Bongos2U]

"Personally, I'm not impressed with the Camaro - I don't care for it's "throwback" looks. To be completely honest, I have not even received my M4 yet. I have only enjoyed a brief test drive. My "subjective" opinion - I love this car, plain and simple. I test drove a Camaro last year (not the SS) and I was not impressed at all - the car was sloppy, all over the place, and lacked any real power. It certainly didn't hold up to my 2001 E46 Wagon. While I was driving the Camaro, I only had one word for the experience: "ewww"."

So this BMW guy drove a 5th gen Camaro ? Since he said he drove a Camaro "last year" ?

[Slem]

good catch

[KenH.]

Thats the camaro he has to compare the m4 to for gis argument to hold up. Give him a break.

[ParisTNDude]

I watched this video when it came out and once again recently and it baffles me that the competition sometimes finds fault with the auto journalist who gives them the truth for a change. For years, BMWs were the darlings of the "feel the road" bunch and BMW simply went the way of the 60s Ford Thunderbirds. They found they could make more money selling them to someone who wants luxury over sport feel. Now, they're selling BMWs to those who love the BMW emblem and wouldn't know a track car from an SUV.

Had they compared the M4 to a 1SS at 5-7k cheaper and lighter, it would have stomped the M4 rather than "tying" it on the road course. You know they later confessed that they ran the Camaro with a full tank of gas and the BMW with a half tank...right? The Camaro weighing 40 to 50 lbs less could have given it the absolute win.

[fzr100098]

40-50 lbs on a 3600+ lb car isn't going to make a significant difference - if it did, the manual cars wouldn't be consistently about 2 tenths slower than the (heavier) autos 0-60

Not sure what the weight difference is between 1SS and 2SS but 40-50 lbs is probably about right

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by ParisTNDude

I watched this video when it came out and once again recently and it baffles me that the competition sometimes finds fault with the auto journalist who gives them the truth for a change. For years, BMWs were the darlings of the "feel the road" bunch and BMW simply went the way of the 60s Ford Thunderbirds. They found they could make more money selling them to someone who wants luxury over sport feel. Now, they're selling BMWs to those who love the BMW emblem and wouldn't know a track car from an SUV.

Had they compared the M4 to a 1SS at 5-7k cheaper and lighter, it would have stomped the M4 rather than "tying" it on the road course. You know they later confessed that they ran the Camaro with a full tank of gas and the BMW with a half tank...right? The Camaro weighing 40 to 50 lbs less could have given it the absolute win.

I feel like if they were going to put the $8000 brake option on the BMW, they should have put the $3000 brake option on the Camaro. If they had, it would have made a bigger impact than the half a tank of gas. After all, the biggest complaint of Randy about the Camaro was the brakes.

[HumanWiki]

I can tell you that back in April when I was at Road America, there were many various years/models of BMW 3-series cars in my run group. I passed many of them like they weren't even trying -- not fair to them, as most were older models and were simply overpowered.

I did, however, have a couple of them in the newer M3s come talk to me about my car and they were very nice and respectful about it and were complimenting me on passing the one and the other told me how he had to "really work" to finally pass me towards the end of the session. They both spoke highly of the SS and were even more shocked when I told them I have the "heavy and slow" one with the 2SS, in auto and w/o the 6pot brakes.

So, there are some that do the actual track thing that know what's up. know you're not always top dog.. And, can respect well put together cars, regardless of whose badge is on them.