[z06psi]

So rumor has it (Roush source) that the GT-500 will be a 5.2L CPC Coyote with a 2.6L Magnuson blower. A little disappointed. I was looking for a lighter car with a Ecoboost 3.6L V-6 just over 600rwhp. Guess not.

[big dave]

IMO, Chevy did what they had to do to bring the best total package to the market while still keeping cost in check. Since it is a multi-talented car, it's up to the owner to put whatever shoes they think would optimize their car to serve their needs. If you drag race, mount up a set of drag radials. As for me, I think it's fun running the car with whatever tires it came with, though it could be a bit dangerous. My own zl1 has pulled a 1.65 60' on the stock Goodyears.

[Raven87]

Originally Posted by GrimReaperSS

Im curious how the tires are not sufficient? It Sounds to me like many want to turn a car that was designed to be very good at everything, into a single minded animal. Theres nothing wrong with that, its your car, but i wouldnt say the manufacturer didnt do their due diligence in providing an ALL AROUND great performing tire. You might be amazed at how many hours of R&D are just soent on tires and how many changes get made to a tire to suite that vehicles needs before a final product is produced.

No one said the manufacturers didn't do their due diligence but as you said, that only provided (for most performance cars), an ALL AROUND tire that is safe on the street in most conditions. Summer only tires are an exception as are track-focused tires like the Trofeos, etc. I only said it would be nice if they could offer some more tire and wheel options to the buyer that are performance oriented but that doing so would be impossible to satisfy every buyer.

That is why we have such a huge and successful aftermarket tire and wheel vendor list.

Some owners DO want their car for one purpose and that's fine. Others want their car to everything 'adequately' and there's nothing wrong with that either. But an 'adequate' tire for everyday street use will usually fail miserably at the track or even at a stoplight race. There are a few exceptions but higher horsepower cars usually do not come with a sticky enough or wide enough tire.

If all you are doing is street driving the stock tires that come on a Hellcat or the 5th gen ZL1 are adequate - for getting around town. But try getting that much horsepower to the ground in a drag race (street or strip) or even on the track you will quickly see you need bigger and stickier rubber. An ALL AROUND tire is just that; it does everything 'good enough' but good enough is NOT enough for better strip/track performance.

A Drag Radial or track tire are single purpose tires and few cars come with that. The 5th gen Z/28 was a good example of a track tire on a 'street' car.

There are street cars, modded cars that run the streets, and all out track cars. To each his own but each higher performing segment needs different tires, not just an All Around tire, to get the most of his or her car.

[Raven87]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

So far the 2SS has done OK with the tires it came with, but I've not had it to the track yet, so will reserve judgement until then.

Curious on the thought that changing tires somehow makes the car no longer stock. So if you wear out the stock tires and use some other brand of tire, is the car also no longer stock? Items like that are chosen by manufacturers through contract negotiations and price primarily. These cars, if they're truly going to be tested, should be fitted with decent tires first, or better yet with both, so everyone can really understand the difference.

Changing your tires for OEM style replacements is one thing - that is retaining a 'stock' classification. Even OEM sizes and specs but from a different different manufacture but that still have the same treadwear, traction, etc spec would still be 'stock'.

But putting drag radials on a car that did not come with drag radials is not 'stock'. DRs are a performance improvement - improving something means you did not leave it 'from the factory' or 'off the showroom floor' stock. Replacement in kind is retaining stock condition; changing something to an item that improves performance is not retaining the car's stock condition.

Putting on DRs would be no different than putting on a CAI, lighter wheels, changing body panels for lighter weight material, etc - those are all mods and thus the car is no longer stock. A car is only truly 'stock' as it comes from the factory. You change anything about it (and not replace in kind) - it is no longer stock.

[Jeffro19]

Originally Posted by Raven87

Changing your tires for OEM style replacements is one thing - that is retaining a 'stock' classification. Even OEM sizes and specs but from a different different manufacture but that still have the same treadwear, traction, etc spec would still be 'stock'.

But putting drag radials on a car that did not come with drag radials is not 'stock'. DRs are a performance improvement - improving something means you did not leave it 'from the factory' or 'off the showroom floor' stock. Replacement in kind is retaining stock condition; changing something to an item that improves performance is not retaining the car's stock condition.

Putting on DRs would be no different than putting on a CAI, lighter wheels, changing body panels for lighter weight material, etc - those are all mods and thus the car is no longer stock. A car is only truly 'stock' as it comes from the factory. You change anything about it (and not replace in kind) - it is no longer stock.

I agree. Bone stock would be as you bought it new from factory. If you change to any type of different tire it is not factory stock anymore. It still is stock but not factory original stock.

I consider my Syclone still factory stock because it still has the factory Firestones on it.

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by Raven87

Changing your tires for OEM style replacements is one thing - that is retaining a 'stock' classification. Even OEM sizes and specs but from a different different manufacture but that still have the same treadwear, traction, etc spec would still be 'stock'.

But putting drag radials on a car that did not come with drag radials is not 'stock'. DRs are a performance improvement - improving something means you did not leave it 'from the factory' or 'off the showroom floor' stock. Replacement in kind is retaining stock condition; changing something to an item that improves performance is not retaining the car's stock condition.

Putting on DRs would be no different than putting on a CAI, lighter wheels, changing body panels for lighter weight material, etc - those are all mods and thus the car is no longer stock. A car is only truly 'stock' as it comes from the factory. You change anything about it (and not replace in kind) - it is no longer stock.

I see. In my opinion, note I said opinion, giving a car tires that meet what its power level requires is simply correcting an engineering, or more likely legal or bean counter, mistake. As long as you don't mess with the tune, suspension, or add anything to the car to improve it's performance from a power output perspective, it's still stock. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one but I can appreciate your position.

If Chevy put some cheap crap tires on the ZL1 because they knew everyone would change them out for whatever they wanted for their situation, and the car ran garbage times at everything, we wouldn't even have this discussion I'm thinking. Better yet, what if Chevy did every single test with some super performance tire custom made just for them for all their testing and marketing numbers, but then put street tires on it for consumer sales. What would we do then? Irrelevant question since they don't do this I reckon, but just food for thought.

[Zeke.Malvo]

Originally Posted by Raven87

Changing your tires for OEM style replacements is one thing - that is retaining a 'stock' classification. Even OEM sizes and specs but from a different different manufacture but that still have the same treadwear, traction, etc spec would still be 'stock'.

But putting drag radials on a car that did not come with drag radials is not 'stock'. DRs are a performance improvement - improving something means you did not leave it 'from the factory' or 'off the showroom floor' stock. Replacement in kind is retaining stock condition; changing something to an item that improves performance is not retaining the car's stock condition.

Putting on DRs would be no different than putting on a CAI, lighter wheels, changing body panels for lighter weight material, etc - those are all mods and thus the car is no longer stock. A car is only truly 'stock' as it comes from the factory. You change anything about it (and not replace in kind) - it is no longer stock.

I'd have to agree with this. Any tire improvement, especially a racing tire (DR, slicks) is a modification. As most people I think would agree, that's why they always add the disclaimer "stock with drag radials".

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

I'd have to agree with this. Any tire improvement, especially a racing tire (DR, slicks) is a modification. As most people I think would agree, that's why they always add the disclaimer "stock with drag radials".

Super high end cars have custom tires made for them. The power delivery of Camaros, GT500s, and Challengers specifically weren't to the levels where it made a huge difference until the past couple of years, but now they are. The GT500 would have been the closest to need something better than a street tire previously, but now all three will need it more than ever. We've got these cars making 600 and 700 hp now right off the show room floor. For reasons mentioned a few other places from law suits to weather, the OEMs are using tires that I would argue aren't up to the task.

I think we can agree that any of us that build 600+ HP cars don't run a standard street tire cant' we? I did before I knew better and it was dangerous.

I get you guys' point though.

[2011shelby]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

I think we can agree that any of us that build 600+ HP cars don't run a standard street tire cant' we? I did before I knew better and it was dangerous.

I get you guys' point though.

Yep..
Nitto 555R's have been my street duty tires for 5+ years.

[Raven87]

Originally Posted by 2011shelby

Yep..
Nitto 555R's have been my street duty tires for 5+ years.

I've had good success with the 555Rs as well, both on the street and at the strip.

[crabman]

I think most people can accept a similar tire in purpose and kind as being stock, I know I can and most people I know do. However, drag radials, DOT slicks, etc. are purposed tires that give up one thing for another and alter the cars performance. The problem with saying changing worn out tires with others that happens to be better suited toward your use still leaving it stock is that it simply cannot be stock when the part clearly alters the cars performance, something has changed. If you pop a diff and put different gears in it during the repair you would not say it's still stock because the diff broke and you simply placed more suitable gearing in there while you were repairing it but the case is the same. It is clearly different, not stock.

Much like virginity stock either is or it is not, there is no qualified version of either, they are absolutes.

[Raven87]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

I went from 11.50 to 10.80s going from DRs to slicks and 12.9s to 11.50s from street tires to DRs but I gave up on the street tires after one outing as it just wasn't safe.

Do I read your quote correctly? You dropped .7 on your time going from DRs to Slicks and even more astounding was that you went from 12.9s to 11.50s going from street tires to DRs a full 1.4 seconds, not just a couple of tenths?

Sounds like you had gobs of power but could not remotely get it to the ground without slicks. Or, am I missing something because NORMALLY you do not see that kind of time improvement going to DRs or, from DRs to slicks if everything else is equal. What kind of power were you making and what were the street tires/size, DR tire/size, and Slick tire/size?

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by crabman

I think most people can accept a similar tire in purpose and kind as being stock, I know I can and most people I know do. However, drag radials, DOT slicks, etc. are purposed tires that give up one thing for another and alter the cars performance. The problem with saying changing worn out tires with others that happens to be better suited toward your use still leaving it stock is that it simply cannot be stock when the part clearly alters the cars performance, something has changed. If you pop a diff and put different gears in it during the repair you would not say it's still stock because the diff broke and you simply placed more suitable gearing in there while you were repairing it but the case is the same. It is clearly different, not stock.

Much like virginity stock either is or it is not, there is no qualified version of either, they are absolutes.

LOL, that last bit made me chuckle. I would agree that a slick is definitely off the table, but modern DRs that come in 19 and 20" sizes are really just high performance street tires to me. They are DOT approved and legal for road use. Slicks are not, thus my statement of them being off limits. However I still think a modern DR that's of same diameter etc, as a factory tire shouldn't be disqualified.

Originally Posted by Raven87

Do I read your quote correctly? You dropped .7 on your time going from DRs to Slicks and even more astounding was that you went from 12.9s to 11.50s going from street tires to DRs a full 1.4 seconds, not just a couple of tenths?

Sounds like you had gobs of power but could not remotely get it to the ground without slicks. Or, am I missing something because NORMALLY you do not see that kind of time improvement going to DRs or, from DRs to slicks if everything else is equal. What kind of power were you making and what were the street tires/size, DR tire/size, and Slick tire/size?

Today the car makes a bit over 600RWHP. It's a manual transmission car so I also don't have the benefit of a torque converter to absorb shock load and with a positive displacement supercharger making 100% torque practically off idle, things can get spicy.

Street Tire = Nitto Invo on a 20x10 wheel in a 295/35R20
DR = M&H on a Cobra Replica Wheel 17x10 and tire was 275/50R17
Slick = Hoosier on a 17x10 Weld Wheel in a 28x10 (front M&H Race Masters in a 28x4 on a 17x4" Weld Wheel to match) to avoid the slick vs. radial goodness at the big end of the track.

Now I should qualify the statements.

When I had street tires the car was about 550 - 570RWHP. I tried two or three outings on the street tires and the best I managed was somewhere in the 12.7 - 12.8 range at a bit over 120MPH at the stripe. The 60's were abysmal at 2.1+. I could maybe have gotten a couple more tenths with lots of finesse, but honestly it wasn't worth the risk of crashing the car to prove a point on street tires, so I went to a cheap DR, and then slicks. 60 foots went from 2.1+ on performance street tires to 1.8x on DRs and finally 1.5x on slicks as a comparison.

I thought I could get more from the DRs, and dropped a pulley size on the blower going from 12psi to 14. I actually went slower due to spinning the DRs on the 1-2 shift, and beat the car to death with wheel hop. I was VERY frustrated. I went from running mid 11s back to low 12s. A buddy at the track with me told me to try his slicks and I instantly ran 11.1x my very next pass. I went back to the pits and sold my DR setup on the spot for $400 and ordered a set of slicks. With more practice driving the car I hit 10.9x, upgraded the clutch and now run 10.8x pretty consistently.

The consistency is what is so satisfying. I can make 4 passes and they will all be within a 1-2/10ths. Knowing I'm getting the most from the car is one of those "feel good" things for folks like us, and I get a feather in my cap knowing it's a manual trans to boot. If it were an auto it'd be a few 10ths faster still.

After that happened and I "saw the light" as it were, I watched another friend of mine run 12.30s and 12.40s at 127-128MPH in his Challenger with a 440ci motor and positive displacement supercharger. His dyno'd around 700RWHP. I convinced him to put my slicks on his car and his very next pass, same day same track, was 10.40 at 133MPH. He said he'd never felt all the power like that and it was the exact same experience I had.

Having those two personal experiences is why I'm such a proponent of having the right tires on a high power car. I'm not saying they have to be tires strictly for drag racing, or a drag radial, but something that can handle the power the car can produce and that should be on the car right from the factory.

It may have been you that told me Acura got sued over the tires on the original NSX because they were performance oriented and wore out so quickly that owners started lawsuits. It's a shame of those law suits were won by those owners, as any common sense judge should have told them they bought a performance car, they should expect additional maintenance.

IMO, a perfect solution would be for Chevy, Dodge, Ford, etc, to test and publish numbers in their cars with very high performance tires designed for the demands of the power produced. Let those be the advertised numbers with an asterisk "XXX tires used in these tests". Then make those an option at the time of purchase. Then the tests are legit, we know what the cars can really do, and folks who want the most out of them know what tires will work. Those that just want to drive back and forth to work can get the standard tires for longevity but still brag all they want about published numbers, and we're all happy. Put a notice in the glove box for those owners that opt for the performance tire option that states the tires are only guaranteed to last 4000 miles or one track day or whatever, and that they are not to be driven in the rain or below 60°F for the morons of the world, to take care of liabilities.

[John Galtman]

I just hope that the 6th gen looks better in person, cause in photos it looks ugly as sin.
Especially, its rear. The front looks like a toy. Rear looks too high. The tail lights are ugly.
Overall, the car does not look wide enough. Oh, and that spoiler.
It's like I'm forcing myself to like it, but I can't. The zl1 looks a lil bit better, but smth is wong... If it looks the same as in pics or a lil bit better( lil bit is not enough) then its a huge fail for the GM designers... :(
I'm not a mustang fan, but the gt350 looks like a real car, which is made of iron. It's wide and is sprawled on the ground. And I love that.
While the camaro looks like a narrow toy for kids :(
I'm trying to like it, but smth is wrong... I was waiting for more.

To tell the truth, I'm not surprised at all. U can't trust people who once put these FUGLY tail lights on the previous gen :
I mean, u must be a real dumb person to put this pos on the car that had beatiful tail lights before the update... My english is not good enough to describe how I felt when I saw these tail lights after a facelift on the g5.