[Posaune]

Originally Posted by Thor142

Next month orders will be up by 50%
People will be ordering $70,000 ZL1's and $50,000 1LE's in droves and save us from another "why is Camaro sucking in sales" thread.

That will send the ATP delta between the 6th and 5th gen through the roof.

[Dudie7]

Originally Posted by IOMike

Are you so insecure about your car that you came here to gloat that the Mustang sells better?

Kinda sad dude. Either add to the community or move on.

No insecurities here, bud. Just good ole Hatfields and McCoys type fun. In the interim, how about you get over yourself? Nothing I said was out of bounds...or wouldn't be reciprocated if the roles were reversed so have a seat.

[Razzaa]

You know GM made a good car when the only thing Ford fanboys can talk smack about is sales.............

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Thor142

I'm almost positive having been in manufacturing and sales a long time that GM could have held the '15 price on the Gen 6 and made money. If someone can prove me wrong with real facts and not just quoting MSRP of different components I would really like to see it.
Another good question that's brought up is complete lack of advertising. Love the transformers or hate 'em they generated a ton of buzz for the re-boot of the Camaro. Why is GM not putting any effort into selling this car?

I also love this thread every month.

As much as I'm bitching about the price I do love the car, I can afford it without any financial strain. A $45,000 (est)1LE just really turns me off.

Of course you can make a bold statement like that. No one other than a few at GM have the following information:

A costed BOM
Total Development costs
Cap Ex
Marketing/advertising
Contribution margin

We know GM added a lot of piece cost in the Gen6.

Further you jump to the conclusion GM actually made a profit on the 5th Gen. I suspect they did but we can't know that either.

[SpookShow'84]

Here's something we haven't heard in the last four of these sales threads.

[Razzaa]

Originally Posted by SpookShow'84

Here's something we haven't heard in the last four of these sales threads.

I don't follow..........

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by mechramc

Hey....not disagreeing with you at all. I do agree to an extent that the Camaro is a premium car....but for the below $35K segment where the Mustang GT is....what is not premium about that car, considering that is the cheapest V8? The difference between the 1SS and GT without any additional features added to it is only the 8 inch display. They do get line lock which we don't. So what is the difference that warrants a $4k price gap?

The chassis/suspension, direct injected LT1 engine, Tremec Rev-matching M6 or 8 speed Auto, 20" run flats.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

The chassis/suspension, direct injected LT1 engine, Tremec Rev-matching M6 or 8 speed Auto, 20" run flats.

The LT1 engine is likely quite a bit cheaper than the 5.0 Coyote. The only thing premium is the HP difference.

4 Camshafts vs 1

32 valves vs 16

Machining differences for more cams and more valves is big.

The only thing the Camaro has is a high pressure fuel system for DI.

So with the engine actually being cheaper is a rev matching 6 speed manual vs a 6 speed manual, 20 inch wheels vs 18s worth anywhere near $4,000.

Also remember the 8 speed automatic is an option. $1,495 for the 8 speed in the Camaro and the 6 speed automatic in the Mustang is $1,195 so you are paying $300 more for the 8 speed automatic. It isn't included and shouldn't be discussed in what the Camaro has that justifies the price difference.

So to your argument, 20s and rev matching are worth $4,000?

[Razzaa]

Originally Posted by Number 3

The LT1 engine is likely quite a bit cheaper than the 5.0 Coyote. The only thing premium is the HP difference.



4 Camshafts vs 1



32 valves vs 16



Machining differences for more cams and more valves is big.



The only thing the Camaro has is a high pressure fuel system for DI.



So with the engine actually being cheaper is a rev matching 6 speed manual vs a 6 speed manual, 20 inch wheels vs 18s worth anywhere near $4,000.



Also remember the 8 speed automatic is an option. $1,495 for the 8 speed in the Camaro and the 6 speed automatic in the Mustang is $1,195 so you are paying $300 more for the 8 speed automatic. It isn't included and shouldn't be discussed in what the Camaro has that justifies the price difference.



So to your argument, 20s and rev matching are worth $4,000?

You think the handling, suspension and chassis are similar between the two?

[SpookShow'84]

I just like Conway Twitty.

[nvrsatisfied]

Double Stuff Oreos rule

[aestil]

Originally Posted by Posaune

I'd bet no as well. 6th Gen is new and needs to amortize the development costs while paying for actually building each car.

I looked at this earlier and assumed only $1k more profit over the 5th Gen. Obviously I made a bunch of numbers up, but thats all we can do since we don't what the real numbers are. Revenue will be down but profit will be nearly the same with those numbers.

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=183

Lets do a thought experiment. If the profit per car sold is $4k on the 6th Gen [just as a round number, I have no evidence that this is correct], and the profit on the 5th gen [on average] was $3k, then if they sell 6900 5th gens a month [this number is actually the average number of 5th gens that were sold monthly over the production run of that car] they make $20,763,000 profit. Now, real numbers for '6th Gen' Camaro sales are hard to figure out because we can assume some percentage of the start of the year was 5th gen cars still left on a lot. Lets just say 5000/mo as a projected average, but with a profit of $4k a per vehicle instead, that gets us $20,000,000.

Obviously all those numbers are just made up, but seeing as how the cost of the Camaro went up, we can reasonably assume that GM makes more money per car sold, so there is some calculus that would indicate maybe they DON'T need to sell as many vehicles to make as much money.

This isn't to say they don't want to sell more. I mean, I bet they were selling as many 2SS Camaros as Honda sells Civics, but the idea is that it's better for the brand, and for GM as a whole to have more upmarket products which retain value better and are more profitable per unit sold rather than trying to compete only on volume.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Number 3

The LT1 engine is likely quite a bit cheaper than the 5.0 Coyote. The only thing premium is the HP difference.

4 Camshafts vs 1

32 valves vs 16

Machining differences for more cams and more valves is big.

The only thing the Camaro has is a high pressure fuel system for DI.

So with the engine actually being cheaper is a rev matching 6 speed manual vs a 6 speed manual, 20 inch wheels vs 18s worth anywhere near $4,000.

Also remember the 8 speed automatic is an option. $1,495 for the 8 speed in the Camaro and the 6 speed automatic in the Mustang is $1,195 so you are paying $300 more for the 8 speed automatic. It isn't included and shouldn't be discussed in what the Camaro has that justifies the price difference.

So to your argument, 20s and rev matching are worth $4,000?

Well, the rev matching Tremec would be worth $4000 to me just so I didn't have to have an MT82. Even Ford switches to the Tremec on their higher trim GT350s. Dodge uses the Tremec on the Challenger. If I am not mistaken the Base GT does not include Brembo brakes. Don't forget those 20" inch wheels on the Camaro come wrapped with $1600 worth of Goodyear runflats.

Forget all the specs, all you have to do is go drive them both and it will become clear that all those little differences add up to create a driving experience that is hard to put a number on. I am always surprised when some folks freak out over something like $3700 when you are already prepared to spend $35k. If you can't afford $50-60 more in a monthly payment to get the car you want then you should probably not be purchasing a new car in the first. There are lots of awesome used cars on the market. If I had a choice between a brand new base Mustang GT for $34k or I could buy a lightly used C6 Corvette for $34k. I mean cmon...

[merlin803]

Originally Posted by aestil

I looked at this earlier and assumed only $1k more profit over the 5th Gen. Obviously I made a bunch of numbers up, but thats all we can do since we don't what the real numbers are. Revenue will be down but profit will be nearly the same with those numbers.

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=183

Lets do a thought experiment. If the profit per car sold is $4k on the 6th Gen [just as a round number, I have no evidence that this is correct], and the profit on the 5th gen [on average] was $3k, then if they sell 6900 5th gens a month [this number is actually the average number of 5th gens that were sold monthly over the production run of that car] they make $20,763,000 profit. Now, real numbers for '6th Gen' Camaro sales are hard to figure out because we can assume some percentage of the start of the year was 5th gen cars still left on a lot. Lets just say 5000/mo as a projected average, but with a profit of $4k a per vehicle instead, that gets us $20,000,000.

Obviously all those numbers are just made up, but seeing as how the cost of the Camaro went up, we can reasonably assume that GM makes more money per car sold, so there is some calculus that would indicate maybe they DON'T need to sell as many vehicles to make as much money.

This isn't to say they don't want to sell more. I mean, I bet they were selling as many 2SS Camaros as Honda sells Civics, but the idea is that it's better for the brand, and for GM as a whole to have more upmarket products which retain value better and are more profitable per unit sold rather than trying to compete only on volume.

Don't try to be logical about this subject, it's been done to death, lol.

Some are not going to accept anything but beating the number of Mustangs sold.