[SpookShow'84]

If it's taking the dealer 4-5 months to flip that spot in the parking lot, the dealers themselves will stop ordering the car. This winter will get really interesting.

[aestil]

Originally Posted by HogsFan75

I understand what you are saying but I disagree with that take.

Being a "leader" in sales has always been a huge part of automotive marketing.
Do you really think they like being dead last in segment sales with a brand new refreshed platform? Also being beat by the Challenger which is more or less the same for 8 years. I think from a sales and marketing standpoint that can't be sitting well with GM.

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see it

They are discounting Challengers like crazy. And the sales people are pushing them like crazy. My visit to a Chevy dealership was super laid back and the sales people barely cared to see if I would buy the car.

The Dodge dealership tried very hard to get me to buy the car, offered incredible incentives even without me asking and then followed up by calling me 3 times over the next 3 weekends to see if they could change my mind.

Seriously, some of the Challenger sales are due to significant incentives that I don't think are currently available on the Camaro.

I just don't see why anyone is panicking about the ~5k a month sales trajectory. That seems pretty reasonable. I'm also really interested in the model mix. I'd also be very curious what number of Mustangs sold are rental cars. I'm taking a little trip to Portland next month and I looked around for a rental Camaro and couldn't find one. Every rental car company had Mustangs for rent though, in coupe and convertible options.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by aestil

It is very conceivable that GM is not looking to compare the Camaro directly to the Mustang or Challenger anymore and is therefore not concerned with selling as many of those units.

First of all historically the Mustang has always sold more, secondly the Camaro is probably more profitable per unit than the Mustang is. I see this car selling around 60k units a year, and I think that's probably just fine for GM, if they can sell more cars through word of mouth and good press, then that's great. If they don't then I'm fairly certain 60k of these cars at the higher ATP for the 6th Gen car will lead to plenty of profit out of the program.

Originally Posted by aestil

They are discounting Challengers like crazy. And the sales people are pushing them like crazy. My visit to a Chevy dealership was super laid back and the sales people barely cared to see if I would buy the car.

The Dodge dealership tried very hard to get me to buy the car, offered incredible incentives even without me asking and then followed up by calling me 3 times over the next 3 weekends to see if they could change my mind.

Seriously, some of the Challenger sales are due to significant incentives that I don't think are currently available on the Camaro.

I just don't see why anyone is panicking about the ~5k a month sales trajectory. That seems pretty reasonable. I'm also really interested in the model mix. I'd also be very curious what number of Mustangs sold are rental cars. I'm taking a little trip to Portland next month and I looked around for a rental Camaro and couldn't find one. Every rental car company had Mustangs for rent though, in coupe and convertible options.

Like I have said in other sales threads, I think they will be fine overall. Just what really shocks me is that the first year of the 6th gen, in what had historically been Camaro's best months never saw a sales spike. That is what interests me.

[Posaune]

Originally Posted by hangover

If that's GM's business model to sell fewer cars it's no wonder they went bankrupt and discontinued the Camaro before (and it looks like they will again).

Volume is what car sales are all about. Period. That's how you get REPEAT BUSINESS.

Look it up.

Purely chasing volume and market share (bad management for decades) caused GM to file bankruptcy.

There is a balance between sales, production and costs. Right now, the balance seems off.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Wireeater

That's just not how it works... They build cars based off of previous sales. No business is trying to sell LESS volume than the previous years, they are trying to sell MORE, hence why they refresh designs, chassis, tech, etc. They aren't trying to keep loyal customers they already have, but have other people buy outside of their prefered brands. No business, especially one with shareholders is aiming to produce LESS units than a previous year. The whole, less but for more profit doesn't make any sense unless you can prove it with facts. GM's overall sales are coming from their SUV, trucks and economy vehicles. Everything else is in the negatives. The overall success speaks nothing for the sales of the Camaro. It just means they are generating enough profit through other sales of the business to raise the stock prices.

If you...

1. Raise MSRP over 10%
2. Eliminate the lowest cost trim level
3. Roll pervious options into standard content
4. Upgrade to an expensive, hard tonneau convertible top cover
5. Increase performance significantly over your leading competitor
6. Build it on a Cadillac production line

I suspect they planned for lower sales than the outgoing car. That’s how it works…

[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by hangover

If that's GM's business model to sell fewer cars it's no wonder they went bankrupt and discontinued the Camaro before (and it looks like they will again).

Volume is what car sales are all about. Period. That's how you get REPEAT BUSINESS.

Look it up.

Their business plan is to remain profitable if the automotive US market sells as low as 10 million a year. Other than that, we know of no specifics by each specific model.

[Posaune]

Originally Posted by hotlap

If you...

1. Raise MSRP over 10%
2. Eliminate the lowest cost trim level
3. Roll pervious options into standard content
4. Upgrade to an expensive, hard tonneau convertible top cover
5. Increase performance significantly over your leading competitor
6. Build it on a Cadillac production line

I suspect they planned for lower sales than the outgoing car. That’s how it works…

No auto manufacturer plans on 4+ months of inventory sitting on the lots.

[DenverTaco07]

The Nissan GTR only sold 52 units last month, that car must suck.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by aestil

They are discounting Challengers like crazy. And the sales people are pushing them like crazy. My visit to a Chevy dealership was super laid back and the sales people barely cared to see if I would buy the car.

The Dodge dealership tried very hard to get me to buy the car, offered incredible incentives even without me asking and then followed up by calling me 3 times over the next 3 weekends to see if they could change my mind.

Seriously, some of the Challenger sales are due to significant incentives that I don't think are currently available on the Camaro.

I just don't see why anyone is panicking about the ~5k a month sales trajectory. That seems pretty reasonable. I'm also really interested in the model mix. I'd also be very curious what number of Mustangs sold are rental cars. I'm taking a little trip to Portland next month and I looked around for a rental Camaro and couldn't find one. Every rental car company had Mustangs for rent though, in coupe and convertible options.

You have highlighted one of the reasons right there. The salesforce and marketing. I think some of these sales plans are flat now. They get paid $200 per car period.

I notice the same thing at the Chevy stores by me. They don't even try to sell most of the time. Go to a Honda dealer, they are like a factory over there doing 10 test drives at a time, people all over the showroom floor grabbing coffee, eating the donuts, non-stop sales energy. Ringing bells when another one is sold.

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

The Nissan GTR only sold 52 units last month, that car must suck.

I was just going to say let's not lump Camaro sales numbers in with exotics and compare them but WTH LOL it's not like this discussion HAS to be logical. It's the internet after all.....

Carry on.

[DenverTaco07]

Originally Posted by hangover

If that's GM's business model to sell fewer cars it's no wonder they went bankrupt and discontinued the Camaro before (and it looks like they will again).

Volume is what car sales are all about. Period. That's how you get REPEAT BUSINESS.

Look it up.

I think it's way too early to say it looks like the end of the Camaro again, I mean it just came out less than a year ago.

[Posaune]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

The Nissan GTR only sold 52 units last month, that car must suck.

It also cost $110K.

[DenverTaco07]

Originally Posted by Thor142

I was just going to say let's not lump Camaro sales numbers in with exotics and compare them but WTH LOL it's not like this discussion HAS to be logical. It's the internet after all.....

Carry on.

Thanks I do think that dealer volume carries a lot more weight than just a low sales volume number.

But really, do Porsche and Ferrari have this pissing match every month on its forums? Who cares, they are both great cars.

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by Wireeater

That's just not how it works... They build cars based off of previous sales. No business is trying to sell LESS volume than the previous years, they are trying to sell MORE, hence why they refresh designs, chassis, tech, etc. They aren't trying to keep loyal customers they already have, but have other people buy outside of their prefered brands. No business, especially one with shareholders is aiming to produce LESS units than a previous year. The whole, less but for more profit doesn't make any sense unless you can prove it with facts. GM's overall sales are coming from their SUV, trucks and economy vehicles. Everything else is in the negatives. The overall success speaks nothing for the sales of the Camaro. It just means they are generating enough profit through other sales of the business to raise the stock prices.

Your concept of business thinking is why so many businesses fail...

Businesses care about one thing, making money. If the desired net profits can be made with lower volume, that is precisely what you want. Less volume means less overhead, less payroll, less shifts, less shipping needs, less parts inventory for production, less maintenance, less of a lot. That means the gross company layout is much smaller, which maximizes net profits.